Author Topic: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT  (Read 26342 times)

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Offline Zulu

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Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« on: February 11, 2014, 01:53:49 pm »
As the sources of this BT seem to have dried up, I have been in research mode for the last few months, with calls into suppliers etc.

Finally the Local Rep and I had some good calls  and have finally found a local source.... and picked up my supply this morning at a greatly reduced price too.... this is of course for use on my Cabbage patch  ;) :laugh:


....but I was extremely interested during my research to find that BT susp aizawai is listed by the EPA as Highly Toxic to Honey Bees.... this was a huge eye opener , so I had to get to the bottom of this.

Quote
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/0247.pdf   page 20 Table 4       last paragraph
154-24    Honey bee     MRID 419748-08     Highly toxic;    LE = 15 ppm

so I looked up the MRID through various sources and found the original  assessment document from 1991
http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/chem_search/cleared_reviews/csr_PC-006403_24-Mar-92_008.pdf

Quote
..... and on page 2 found that they fed a 1:1 mix with sugar water over 11 days and at the highest dose 1000ppm - mortality was 6.7 days. THUS:  It took bees 6 days of continuous feeding to be killed by BT at a HUGE dose as well

The researcher on page 4 comes to the conclusion that the dose far exceeds any normal field situation and Bees would not be affected by normal use, and despite the normal method of spraying fields about once a week the exposure would be minimal.  He also surmised that Bee Larvae were most likely to be exposed via Pollen from sprayed fields (but no study was done on this).

Simple interpolation by me, says that the single low dose spray we use has limited to no effect - and this is borne out by the millions of frames of drawn comb that have been sprayed by beekeepers to date using Certan, Agree.WG, Xentari etc ,  with no effects to their bees, but offering solid protection against wax moth. My own 3 year experience has shown tremendous success agaisnt wax moth in stored boxes


It may be this document in the EPA files from 23 years ago , that has prevented BT from being released in the USA for Bee Keepers to get the benefit.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2014, 01:59:19 pm »
WOW!!   NICE work Zulu!!
   OK Iddee, time to get him an office in that fancy building and give him a BEE detective badge!!!!
   Put him on CCD and we will have it solved in two weeks!   ;D
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Offline Slowmodem

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2014, 03:26:46 pm »
Last year at a bee meeting, I asked our state apiarist what he thought about BT.  He said it works great  ;D , but it was illegal  :o .

I have been satisfied with how it works on "cabbage".   8)
Greg Whitehead
Ten Mile, TN
Beekeeping at 26.4 kbs

Offline iddee

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2014, 04:13:42 pm »
"" OK Iddee, time to get him an office in that fancy building and give him a BEE detective badge!!!!""

Naw, I did better. I gave him a few hives and told him if they die, I will replace them. Much better than an "inside" office. We are outside people.
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Offline tefer2

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 04:59:28 pm »
What ever happened to Sundance?

Offline iddee

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2014, 05:03:44 pm »
Sundance says he's out until spring or summer.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline reidi_tim

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2014, 11:41:27 am »
Where did you source the BT from as I'm needing some for my cabbage as well. ;D

Offline robo

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2014, 03:07:29 pm »
Where did you source the BT from as I'm needing some for my cabbage as well. ;D

I get mine here -> http://www.hidhut.com/xentari-p-31.html

I have always been very satisfied with their service.

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Offline jb63

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 11:38:08 pm »
I got mine there too.No more wax worms on the cabbage.
I don't know.It was like that when I got here.

Offline reidi_tim

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 11:17:17 pm »
ok thanks, I will get some coming to help my cabbage along :)

Offline Zulu

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 11:46:59 pm »
Sorry I missed the posting.

Hid hut is the only online place now. My supplier is only a few $ cheaper, so that is a good option.

Note that a lb is a lot of Xentari as you only use a few teaspoons per gallon of mix, which will do about 100 -150 frames.
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Offline Slowmodem

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2014, 01:42:09 am »
Hid hut is the only online place now. My supplier is only a few $ cheaper, so that is a good option.

I checked Amazon tonight where I got some the last time, and they're out of stock now and don't know when they'll get any more.
Greg Whitehead
Ten Mile, TN
Beekeeping at 26.4 kbs

Offline iddee

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2014, 08:08:45 am »
Zulu will send you a small amount if you want it. Enough for a few gallons, rather than a hundred gallons or so that a pound will make.
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Offline Zulu

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 11:22:26 am »
Anyone needing help on their cabbages , pls let me know  ;) ;)  :laugh: 

Just stocked up again. Good to spray now in spring to protect for whole season.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 01:53:53 pm »
I'll PM you!   Just grabbed some frames in the garage, (heated) sitting in the open to take out as i prepare for spring, and a dozen moths flew out, the frames were webbed together..  annoyed at myself....
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Offline efmesch

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 03:04:12 pm »
Zulu got me some BT for my "cabbage patch" last summer. I sprayed a bit later than I should have, but the spraying cleared up an infestation that was beginning to develop.  These posts came just on time--a reminder that as the season starts, the protective spraying should keep things clear in advance, rather than clearning up existing infestations.
A word of advice, related to the topic:  as you get your hives set up for the spring, make sure that you don't have any piles of wax debris on the floor. Wax moths from the last season often like to overwinter, hiding in the cappings and start a new infestation. Cleaning them out carefully puts you at an advantage with an ounce of prevention.

Offline G3farms

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 03:28:14 pm »
A word of advice, related to the topic:  as you get your hives set up for the spring, make sure that you don't have any piles of wax debris on the floor. Wax moths from the last season often like to overwinter, hiding in the cappings and start a new infestation. Cleaning them out carefully puts you at an advantage with an ounce of prevention.

Very good advice! Also if you are running screened bottom boards and covered them over for the winter they need to come out in early spring also.
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Offline tedh

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2015, 06:25:08 pm »
I mixed up a gallon of bt yesterday.  I only needed a little, does anyone know how well, or long, it will store once mixed?  Thanks, Ted
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Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2015, 06:54:14 pm »
After two days it starts smelling like rotten meat, don't know if it's still good or not, but i wouldn't want it in my hives. The bees probably wouldn't like it either.  ;D Jack

Offline G3farms

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Re: Bacillus thuringiensis subsp. aizawai - better known as BT
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2015, 07:12:23 pm »
As Jack said only a couple of days, then it goes rancid.

If you have any fruit trees that have bloomed spray them good, will keep the worms out of the fruit.

A quart will do about 30 deep frames if I remember right. Wife just sprayed 190 medium, 40 shallow and 100+ deep frames and used almost 2 gallons of mix.
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