Author Topic: Supercede cells (Read 9663 times)

Marty68 · « **on:** September 12, 2014, 09:37:00 am »

I opened my hive two days ago and seen about 20 capped cells total on 3 frames. Little to no brood. So I split them into 3 nucs. 2 1/2 frames of honey and tried to splits the bees evenly in the boxes. Question is what are the chances they will make it. I have put 1/1 syrup and pollen patties in them to help the queen lay. Did I do the right thing or am I wasting my time. What I don't get, is this was my main honey producing hive this year and a first year queen as I bought it as a nuc. Any ideas. Ty

riverbee · « **Reply #1 on:** September 12, 2014, 11:02:06 am »

marty, did you look for the queen?

for me, this late in the season, what i would have done is to determine that the hive is queenless. obviously she must be with no brood present, i would be concerned about the validity of viability of the capped queen cells, whether they be supercedure or emergency queen cells. i would have combined the hive with another. for me, making 3 nucs with capped queen cells, would never make it. even if a good queen were to emerge, she would need time to mate, providing you have a good drone population, and at this time of the year in my climate, the drones are being kicked out.... and also then the queen needs time to lay up a good population for winter, meanwhile the population of bees dwindles down. that's not going to happen for me. i would venture to say it's not going to happen for you either.

i think you would have been better off combining the hive with another.

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #2 on:** September 12, 2014, 11:07:59 am »

What rb said. Jack

Perry · « **Reply #3 on:** September 12, 2014, 03:09:02 pm »

Throw my hat in with Riverbee and Jack!
Wait!!!!!! What am I saying? This can't be, the 3 of us in agreement?

riverbee · « **Reply #4 on:** September 12, 2014, 05:12:29 pm »

LOL! i think i am going to have to 'bookmark' this thread.........

Marty68 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 12, 2014, 11:53:34 pm »

ok i did split and today i did see one of the new queens. i will give it a cpl days to see how she's doing and if none of the others are good i will combine what i have and make a decent nuc out of them. just a shame to see that man cells go to waste was my thought. ty all for the input. i will keep you updated. on the progress.

tecumseh · « **Reply #6 on:** September 13, 2014, 05:50:47 am »

it is my experience that VERY LATE mated queens have a very short half life.

Marty68 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2014, 08:02:41 am »

what if i was to take some brood like 3 frames and fill that nuc with them to give them extra bees. would that work.would like to keep this one queen because there is another hive i was gonna do that to when i had a chance. now that i think about it i could split another hive up that really didn't do anything this year. hardly grea into a single deep.

Marty68 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2014, 11:39:19 pm »

ok i got 3 new queens from those cells. 2 gold and 1 almost all black. now i have another hive that didn't do any good this year and was thinking about killing the queen and combining that hive into the nucs i have. that would be more than enough brood, eggs and bees to make it through the winter. and i can just store what honey the have to any that runs out. any thoughts would be appreciated. this hive i want to split up hasn't done me any good favors since i've had it.

Marty68 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2014, 11:43:52 pm »

Marty68 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2014, 11:46:28 pm »

Marty68 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2014, 11:48:14 pm »

Marty68 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2014, 11:50:29 pm »

i would rather save these 3 new queens then the one that doesn't really do anything. their mother was the only honey producer this year. that is the only reason i'm thinking this route. any help

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #13 on:** September 15, 2014, 12:49:15 am »

There are a couple of problems at this stage in the game.. #1 How well mated can those queens be? #2 How much time do you have left? It will be another 21 days before ANY brood hatches.. that will put you into the middle of October.. thats about two/three weeks before I usually button up for the winter here in Iowa.. I dont know when your COLD starts moving in to stay...

I agree, Wasting queen cells SUCKS! But sometimes it needs to be done...
In your situation.. I would have called around and found a replacement queen, OR, combined now, and split in the spring as the others mentioned...

So you have new queens, at a time there are FEW drones.. Will those queens make the winter? Are the hives they HAVE strong enough to overwinter?
You are leaving solid ground and embarking on a journey across floating thin Ice.
It IS possible to get those hives through the winter if you have the resources.. Bees to give them, and extra frames of pollen and honey.. What you have to ask yourself is... Will it be worth the struggle, the worry, the risk, and the loss if none of them make it? Is it worth weakening a strong hive to do it?
"If you give a GOOD hive a sub par queen that was not mated, or was not WELL mated, do you doom that hive too?

Maybe you still have a good drone population and this is all a bunch of hogwash..
So,
Even if the queens are WELL mated, they need to build up for winter, and they do NOT have the time.. At the very best, they could roll out TWO new generations of bees before they have to begin hunkering down for winter..

If you HAVE to save them, put them in nucs. Make sure they have the resources and bees they need by adding them and feeding and hope for the best..

Marty68 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2014, 08:31:36 am »

thanks lazy. it all makes sense. just trying to do the right thing and not kill that hive. still being new at this my intention was to do the right thing but maybe at the wrong time. now i just have to figure out what i'm gonna do. they are already in nuc boxes with 2 1/2 frames of honey in each. i will watch and see what happens over the next week. i still have time to combine them with another hive, i believe.

jb63 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 15, 2014, 08:56:48 am »

You might keep your eye out for some 1.5-2 inch foam.If you insulate the nucs they would have a better chance. Over wintering nucs is a good learning experience.Remember the dates from this year and if they make it you'll have a good cut off line.Our winters are mild enough that they might make it.I had some late ones two years ago and they had about 50% survival rate, but I got overly curious and opened them too soon and chilled the brood.

Marty68 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 15, 2014, 09:33:34 am »

Ty jb. I already have insulation stocked up. I was gonna do that to all the others.

riverbee · « **Reply #17 on:** September 15, 2014, 11:12:39 am »

marty, the pic of the queen in post #11, to me it appears her right wing is damaged? or did you clip it?

Marty68 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 15, 2014, 09:05:56 pm »

no it's there the pic is kinda blurry but they all have their wings

riverbee · « **Reply #19 on:** September 15, 2014, 10:52:35 pm »

okay thanks marty, wasn't sure....!