Queens dying after hatching

[Yankee11]

As I do more grafts and try different things I have noticed something and wanted to ask the forum.

I have had queens die shortly after emerging in an incubator. So this last graft I wanted to try something different. I put the cages on the cells and left them
in the hive to hatch.



Out of the 10, 2 of them did same thing. One died right after emerging and the other died while chewing herself out.  I found one just starting the chew her way out and I put 3 attendants in there with her and they had her out in no time.

So I am thinking that maybe the queens that die are expending to much energy getting themselves out. Maybe the attendants help them get out quicker.
What do you think about this?

Next round I am going to put a couple or 3 attendants in each cage when I put he cages on the cells and see if it changes.  I thought at first maybe it had something to do with the incubator.

[LazyBkpr]

Interesting observation..   Maybe it has something to do with not being fed while and after emerging?   Interested in the replies to this...

[apisbees]

The worker bees do remove some of the wax coating on the tip of the cell known as polishing the end of the queen cell. The workers build and seal the end of the cell in wax, then the queen larva spins it cocoon, just before the queen is to emerge the bees remove most of the wax off the tip down to the cocoon. so the queen only needs to chew her way through the cocoon.
This practice by the bees can be used to determine which queen cells are ready to emerge when many cells are found in a swarming hive. Due to the fact that in the hive cells can be started over many days.

[Intheswamp]

Newbie thoughts... 

Could there be a lack of oxygen involved?  A week of more or less suspended animation in a wax sealed container...sudden exertion on the queen's part...  How much oxygen does she require?  Does the wax removal by the workers prior to the queen chewing through the cell allow oxygen to enter the cell?

Ed

[riverbee]

"Maybe it has something to do with not being fed while and after emerging?"

i think scott has something here yankee, of the queens that died, was there any royal jelly left?  i am thinking maybe starvation?

edit and add:
and for the ones that died after emerging, how soon did they die?

[pistolpete]

i was under the impression that virgin bees don't get fed, they have to fend for themselves until they're mated.

[Lburou]

Newly hatched Queens appear to feed themselves if you put them on a comb with nectar or honey.  Don't know how long they will survive on their own.

Observing Queen cells cut from the comb and incubated, I've seen a correlation between dry cells and queen death or a queen failing to get out of her queen cell.  HTH 

[Yankee11]

They seem to die right after they emerge. Within an hour or 2.

The queens will fed themselves. I put a little honey on the side of the cage if in incubator and I see them come and eat. I have kept virgins in cages for up to 2 days and they are fine.

My next round I will put 2 to3 workers in each cage and see if I have any hatch and die.

[Bakersdozen]

Observing Queen cells cut from the comb and incubated, I've seen a correlation between dry cells and queen death or a queen failing to get out of her queen cell.  HTH 

If that is the case, did nature do the beekeeper a favor?  If there wasn't enough royal jelly in there in the first place, then she was not going to make a quality queen.  We all know not all queens are equal. This is just a theory.

[blueblood]

Yankee, I am anxious to see if adding the nurse bees helps.  Very interesting and didn't know that can happen.

[Intheswamp]

Observing Queen cells cut from the comb and incubated, I've seen a correlation between dry cells and queen death or a queen failing to get out of her queen cell.  HTH 

Lee, when you speak of dry cells are you referrring to cells with an absence of RJ or one where the RJ is dried up?

Ed

[Lburou]

I mean to say that queens will die when they eat all the royal jelly in their cell and still need more food Ed.  I've noticed that sometimes it is difficult to get all the royal jelly when harvesting a cell from the comb, and have seen excess royal jelly stay soft for a week after hatching the queen but I don't know how nutritious it is by then.  HTH   

[tecumseh]

just a curious side question based on certain bad habit I have recently notice by a student.... not certain if the cause is the same but definitely the same end results.   how do you remove bees from the bar of queen cells?  do you use a brush or do you shake off the bees?

ps... a sudden shock to the cell builder/finisher, large claps of thunder and positioning the cells in an improper way early in the cells development can all produce this same end results.  recently we had a group of about 40 cells at the TAMU Bee Lab that did exactly as you describe.

[apisbees]

Either brush or smoke the bees off. The damage could also be caused to frames of worker brood if the brood was at a certain stage of their development w feq days before emerging. And this is the timing for removing and transfering the cells. I have worked with queen producers who do not turn the cells up side down eather. But I have seem youtube videos where the guy is shaking the queen cell to see if it rattels. I can't imagine that is any good for the queen.

Sent from my LG-P500h using Tapatalk 2

[Yankee11]

Yea, I brush the bees off of the frame I'm going to graft from.

Then when the cells are capped I gently lay the cell frame on top of the hive and smoke the bees of of them. No shaking.