Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Pests and Diseases => Topic started by: Jen on September 30, 2018, 03:31:25 pm
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For those of you who use oxalic acid for mite treatment, have any of you used the shop towel extended release method yet?
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I haven't used that method yet. I think the jury is still out about whether it works or not. In the September, 2018 issue of Bee Culture Magazine, Jennifer Berry wrote she couldn't recommend that method. She and her team didn't see any significant reduction in mite levels using the 12g or18g extended release method.
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OA isn't legal in Calif yet. I'm the only one in our bee club that uses OA. Some beekeepers are coming to me and asking about OA. I educate them and then offer to come and do one treatment on their hive so they can see how the vaporizer works, then we insert a sticky board so they can see the mite drop over a few days. I purchased a foldable hand truck and secure the 12 volt battery onto it with a cinch strap. I can wheel the battery pretty much anywhere. I get a Charge out of doing this... lol :laugh:
I've found out tho that not all hive entrances are created equal, there is such a mish mash of bottom boards and brood boxes out there, that often my vaporizer won't fit thru the entrance. Dang!
Hense my question about the paper towels. It would be so cool to have an OA treated roll of paper that I could use in case the vap didn't fit.
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There is always the dribble method and that is highly recommended. I have done that. Works great on recently installed packages (apply within the first 7 days after installing the package). OA works most effectively during periods when there is no brood present. Syringes are available at Tractor Supply Store or similar stores.
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Haven't ever done the dribble method, but prob should look into that, even just for the experience.
The difference between the vap and the dribble tho… is that we would have to take down the hive for a dribble, as opposed to a quick vap thru the entrance.
I'll look up some youtubes on dribble and also see how Randy does it.
Thanks Baker ;)
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Brushy Mountain is the one that helped fund the research on OA. They have excellent directions on their website. They also sell the OA in a little kit. I think it's the granulated OA, syringe, goggles, gloves and maybe a mixing up. Good to look at so you know what to buy.
The application goes fast.
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http://scientificbeekeeping.com/extended-release-oxalic-acid-progress-report-4/
Speak of the devil!
- K
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I've been following Randy's work on this method for some time and it is really encouraging. If it is approved it would solve the problem of mites hiding in the capped brood at treatment time.
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Brushy Mountain is no longer in business, so be careful about using OA from a non-approved source.
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I use oxilac acid when restoring cast aluminum. I get mine off Amazon. It comes scientific certified
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Brushy Mountain is no longer in business, so be careful about using OA from a non-approved source.
I just saw something about that a couple of weeks ago. They were bought out by Mann Lake, I believe.
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No, Kelley was bought out by Mann Lake. M-L only bought Brushy's remaining stock, not the company. It is illegal to use Amazon OA if the label doesn't mention for bees.
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If Brushy holds the rights to sell OA and they are out of business is all of it illegal now?
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I think Veto Pharma is coming out with it sometime this month. I'll update as I know more. It is still legal if you have the label and instructions from Brushy. OA is legal, but using it off label is illegal. You have to have the bee label to use it legally.
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Please understand. And I understand your position. Someone sells OA @97%pure with a label that they bought. A beekeeper that buys 99% pure OA @ 500% less because it’s as common as table salt cannot use it because he has no label. This is an organic compound that is in my collard greens but because someone paid to get the bought approval for the powers that be that makes it illegal for anyone to use it. :'( :'(
Is it illegal to bleach the inside of my hives? That was a poke and no harm intended.
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Maybe this spring you can buy the label on ebay. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. I got up to delete the post and you still can if you want. :-[
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Nothing wrong with your post. Money talks.....always has.
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https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/091266-00001-20151013.pdf
Not fighting--just showing you the label that makes OA legal. The added cost is what is behind establishing that it is effective, how to reasonably safely apply it, and minimize secondary harm to people, plants, and other animals when applying it. Even at the higher cost when Brushy was around, the OA only cost pennies per hive. The real expense is the vaporizer and the battery. I might feel different if like some human pharmaceutical companies, Brushy had massively inflated the cost of the treatment they "controlled."
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They had the
only rights ?
Jacobs do you OAV your hives ? Coming out of orange co. Today into chatham co. seen about 30 hives stopped today , he told me that he doesn't treat and hasn't. He runs about 80 hives , makes his on Q's.
Told me he has winter losses every year but because of his mismanaging.
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I guess I have worked for too many lawyers... And it seems that some here have interpret the law in a unbending fashion which is not how things work in the real world. The basic rule you should apply when it come to interpreting the law.... is 1) there is THE LAW and 2) there is the implementation of the law (or as is most common NOT). Which is to say there are numerous laws on the books and some are enforced and some are not... Some laws (like that which applies to oxalic) has no one to even enforce the law. When I have a question about such matters as this..... I typically ask the head of the Texas Apiary Inspection Service to see what they do and what they think. Even if I went against their advice there is really no one to enforce the law.
I do treat the bees at the TAMU bee lab with oxalic. It is so cheap I even play around with dribble, slow release towels and thick cardboard. Like many varroa treatments effectiveness is not the same across all types of application and each one's effectiveness will with proper (not so proper) timing. It seems to work best in the bloodless state.
I would recommend folks NOT use the oxalic which is sold as wood bleach in lumber supply stores.... < several reasons for this 1) you are uncertain to all the other things added to the mix and 2) mixing stuff up in large batches can pose problems in terms of equal distribution of the various things added to the mix.
You do want to buy the right form of oxalic.
Gene in Central Texas....
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I do like OAV both as a winter treatment (per label) and as an emergency knock down (somewhat off label) when mite counts are above threshold and temperatures are too high for other treatments. I do want to play with a couple of hives by using screened bottom boards, doing regular sticky boards, using OAV as an emergency 1 time knock down if needed, and follow up sticky boards to see how effective this routine is. I have used the 1 time knockdown in summer a couple of times with good results, but that may have been luck or chance. If I do OAV when real honey is in the top super, I chase the bees out of it with Bee Quick and a fume pad, put a piece of plywood between the honey super and brood and do the OAV. Once all has cooled down, I remove the plywood and reunite the honey with the brood. I don't use the shop towel OA method. I'll wait to see the results of testing and if effective, a good reasonably safe method of making and applying them.
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Late Fall after the winter bees have been born is not best time to think about mite control imho but, this is when the label on Brushy Mt says to treat for mites. So when the winter bees that have been weakened by the mites don’t survive the winter and you used the product as directed what’s up with that. Remember to test early treat as needed and post test to know if it was effective enough with something.
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I agree with you CBT. OAV is not my exclusive varroa treatment, but one that is available in high temperatures as an emergency knock down, and in winter, when brood is at a minimum. I have been partial to formic acid treatments, weather permitting, for standard treatments.
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I bleach my woodenware with OAV: I leave the bees in there since it doesn't seem to bother them.: Are you saying it inadvertently knocks off the mites at the same time?
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Eddy, can you describe that process? Are you bleaching the inside or the outside? Why are you bleaching the woodenware?
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I suspect this treatment is along the lines of beekeepers who use frames of comb for a backstop when spraying a certain type of BT to control pests and hit the frames with it by accident. No "intent" to limit wax moth damage on comb.
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Eddy, can you describe that process? Are you bleaching the inside or the outside? Why are you bleaching the woodenware?
I vaporize the OA in the hive so it soaks into the wood grain. Keeps the inside wood clean I suppose.
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LOL @ Eddy... I did that for YEARS.. wait, still doing it, because I buy the 99.5% pure OA from Amazon....
I am interested in the towel method posted earlier at Randy Oliver's site. I am surprised it actually works... bees rub agains the towel in passing and transfer the crystals... not as many of them "Ingesting" the OA syrup to cause them harm like the dribble method... and yet... it still takes quite a while to get it to work... so thats a downside...
Quote;
The other shortcoming is that it takes at least 6 weeks to realize the full effect of the treatment. This is a treatment best used proactively, rather than after mite counts have already climbed to high. Don’t expect this treatment to quickly take care of high varroa infestations late in the season.
So.... since I have the vaporizors, I will keep on bleaching my frames....
As Tec mentioned.. there is no one to check or enforce that you MUST use the labeled OA... I bought some of it.. then I just refilled the bottle with the purer/cleaner amazon stuff... Then I talked to Andy Joseph about it, and he said the same thing Tec said... So I stopped pretending and NOW I treat my hives in just a few moments each with the purer 99.5% pure amazon OA for the sole purpose of killing mites.
it made me think of the electrician that insepcted my wiring on my new house.. told me I had to put in Ground fault breakers.. I told him I did, but they didn't work.. I installed one, and showed him.. it was for my ceiling fans.. turned it on.. it blew... he tested and tested... yeah it all looks okay... It has to be becauyse they are just CHEAP ceiling fans.
I said okay, will you put htat in writing?
He asked why
I told him, those are 400 dollar ceiling fans, i want your letter to take to the company when I return them.... he scratched his head and said... You know, you only get inspected ONCE.....
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LOL @ Eddy... I did that for YEARS.. wait, still doing it, because I buy the 99.5% pure OA from Amazon....
;)