Beekeeping > Pests and Diseases
Oxalic Acid Discussion
LazyBkpr:
In looking for other information, i am finding again links I have already perused, and would like to put up some links to this information to make it available for all to read..
Perhaps a treatments section in the forum to make locating the information on treating and medicating hives easier to find?
Anyhow, Links...
OAV Research in Central Italy where the use of OAV is common (and approved)
http://www.apimondia.com/apiacta/articles/2004/enzo_1.pdf
From the EPA..
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/4070fact.pdf
Randy Oliver links;
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-questions-answers-and-more-questions-part-1-of-2-parts/
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-heat-vaporization-and-other-methods-part-2-of-2-parts/
I refuse to use the liquid treatment and shorten the life of my bees, but will post links;
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-treatment-table/
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/does-oxalic-acid-treatment-of-nucs-affect-honey-production/
Another recomending liquid and stating that vaporization is too dangerous and that he will not recommend it;
http://www.talkingwithbees.com/beekeeping-how-to-guides/oxalic-acid-beekeeping
My arguments about the idiocy of such people will be posted below.
A list of some food that contain OA;
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/oxalic-acid-foods-list.html
2007 study on the effects of other treatments on honeybees;
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-08162007-092313/unrestricted/lmburley.pdf
More links;
http://beekeepingnaturally.co.uk/varroa-mite-treatment-using-oxalic-acid-vaporization/#.VE-tIRZ3Nco
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/cor.htm
http://www.moraybeedinosaurs.co.uk/Varroa/oxalic_acid_vapourisation.htm
http://kiwimana.co.nz/kiwi-oxalic-acid-vaporizer-launch/
http://www.geocities.ws/vaporizerklaus/Oxalic_Acid.html
http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Paper/10479474.aspx
http://oxavap.com/product/varrocleaner-oxalic-acid-vaporizer/
http://www.biovet.ch/en/Imkerei/varrox-vaporizer.html
http://www.bedillionhoneyfarm.com/store/1703/32553
And, the OAV Fogger for commercial applications;
http://beeinformed.org/2014/02/oxalic-acid-fogger-demostration/
This is not meant to be a one way USE OAV NOW thread. if you find something Negative about OAV PLEASE post it..
In Using OAV I have to say that i can personally refute many statements about how TERRIBLY DANGEROUS it is to the beekeeper. I have found OAV to be a thousand times safer to use than any other chemical I have used or seen put into a hive to treat mites.
With over 300 applications at this time, I have NEVER attempted, purposefully or accidentally to breath the fumes, and at this point I have no experience with what happens when you do. I have been told by those who HAVE caught a whif of the fumes, that they close up instantly, ant that it is NOT possible to INHALE the OA vapor. Am I wrong? please tell me!
Also as I understand it, many sites tell you that the OA is caustic and will blind you and burn your skin BADLY...
I can absolutely refute this beyond all doubt. I will pick up the OA in my fingers to prove it. I often get it on my fingertips and have suffered NO ill effects. Mix it with syrup or water, and it is much like battery acid, creating a itching burning feeling. I suppose, that IF, you were in a location where you had no means of wiping or washing it off, it MIGHT cause a skin rash.
I have gotten it in my eye, and it was unpleasant. I rinsed my eye, and within moments I was fine.
I have gotten it on my bare arm, and felt the itchy burning sensation.. i washed the spot off and the feeling instantly vanished.
My experience has shown me that the people yelling the loudest are ignorantly crying WOLF, and that with time and experience everyone will start to ignore them.
So there is NO danger at all?
i didnt say that. if your skin is sensitive, you may well develop a rash. if your tied to a post and someone sprinkles the OA on you it will start to BURN you after a while. What I am saying, is that it is SAFER than any other chemical i have used, or seen used. It is not absorbed through the skin and will NOT poison you like MOST other chems will. I am not saying to toss out safety and common sense.
I often say that I am astounded, astonished and totally confused why anyone would use ANYTHING else to treat their bees. WHY would you use chems that might ruin your queen, or that will make your drones steril or less fertile? WHY would you use chems that make the majority of your bees LEAVE the hive and hang out on the front. WHY would you use chems that cause your queen to stop laying for up to a week? When something is available that has no effect on the bees, yet kills mites?
Thats the beauty of being a beekeeper, you do it your way!
In another thread one of the folks here said that OAV causes mild brood kill.. In three treatments in August (120 applications) I found no difference in brood between treated and untreated hives, so perhaps the brood kill was because of different circumstances? Different temps?
It was also stated that OAV causes supersedure of queens.. I can thankfully say that of 47 hives I only had a single supersedure AFTER the treatment, and that single supersedure was of a package queen, from which eight of her package compatriots had already been superseded.. was it because of the OAV? I doubt it, but have to admit it is possible.
My greatest success story is with two hives I brought back home from buying out another beekeeper..
Two hives in double deeps that were in SERIOUS trouble.. DWV was very evident, and in opening drone cells, i found 4 to 6 mites in EVERY cell I opened..
Within ten minutes of setting those two hives on the stand I had the vaporizor heating up inside the first of the two hives.
Middle of summer, lots of brood.. A week later I treated them again.. no third treatment was administered.
Those two hives EXPLODED with bees. BOTH had to be split twice, and they STILL produced more honey than any of my other hives.
So, my experience has shown that OAV works well, works safely, and is easier on the bees than anything else I have heard of to this point.. I have Hopguard in the back room in case i need it, but I have not needed it. I would try MAQS if necessary.. But so far, the OAV is exceeding my wildest hopes and expectations..
I have long believed something that Is best explained by Randy Oliver...
The plain truth is that a colony of bees does not differentiate between agricultural pesticides, and beekeeper-applied miticides. What actually affects the colony, is the cumulative load of all toxins that the colony is exposed to, ....
Randy Oliver, the learning curve part 2
it is, and has been my uneducated opinion, that using something naturally occurring, that has little to no effect on the bees, and will NOT build up in the wax or combine with other insecticides to make a stronger poison/insecticide can only be a good thing.
I am VERY MUCH WITH Mrs. River (Riverbee) in her philosophy of dont treat if it is not needed. I feel that OAV gives me that freedom. The freedom to wait and watch, and yet, be ready to FIX a problem in mere moments.
I believe that the bees will not build, or show resistances if there is nothing to resist. The only way we will know if we are succeeding in creating bees that can co exist with Varroa, is if we WAIT, and force them to fight back.. Those who cannot fight back get treated, and given a different queen, raised from a colony that IS at the very least TRYING to fight back...
Treating 50 hives takes so LONG!
Do you really think it takes longer than treating with any other method? Is 2.5 minutes per hive longer than it takes to break down the hive?
In order to treat with hopguard, i have to open the hives. I have to get to the lower brood box, which, for me means removing the two upper boxes. Then i can place the strips in as the instructions require.. with 50 hives, it will take the better part of the day to do this. A LOT of lifting, and many aggravated bees when i tear their homes open... Worse, i have to remove most of those strips in a few days or weeks.. opening the hives again.
With OAV I do not need to open the hives. There is no lifting. With two vaporizors, I can work my way down the line of hives pretty swiftly. With travel to the outyards, It takes me about 5 hours if I do not hurry. If... WHEN I have 100 hives, i expect it will take me a full day to treat using the same method..
I also expect, that sooner or later someone will produce a vaporizer capable of treating a hive much faster and easier.. Beyond even that, I expect resistant bees to make ALL of this completely useless. As I continue to add resistant genetics, i HOPE to eventually "find" my old vaporizer on the shelf, and not so fondly remember the days when I had to treat my bees....
Feel free to post pros or CONS. I want to hear them! if i can refute them, i will, if I cant, i will look into it further and might just step across to your side of the fence..
In closing... Please just read the Introduction to The Hive and the Honeybee.. Written in 1911, Over one hundred years ago, and then tell me that beekeepers are different today!
http://bees.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=bees;cc=bees;idno=5017631;node=5017631%3A3;frm=frameset;view=image;seq=6;page=root;size=s
Jen:
Holy Schmoly Guacamole Scott! :D Let me go get a cup a jo and read this thesis, so I can join on an intellectual level :)
Marbees:
Efficient and hassle free treatment. Easy on bees and beekeepers.
Never liked using Apivar or formic acid. Varrox is my choice No. 1 for varroa control.
Yankee11:
Wow, nice Lazy.
Now you you just gave me something else to do during winter. (read through this thread)
BTW, I love mine. Just started using it. Amazed at how the bees don't mind at all. Only thing I found was that I have it insert it before it starts vaporizing.
They did seem to attack it if I started it up then slid it in.
I on your side of fence.
I have gotten a wiff, and no way I could inhale it. Don't know about a getting a small enough dose that you can't detect it? I use a long cord. Hook to battery, start timer and walk away for 2.5 minutes.
BTW, since brood count has dropped off now. I'm gonna do a final treatment in next few weeks.
Jen:
I'm finishing up my 3 winter treatments this week, but I still watch my sticky boards all winter long.
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