Author Topic: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites  (Read 3819 times)

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Offline rober

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my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« on: September 02, 2018, 09:37:20 pm »
yesterday I applied apiguard to the dozen hives here at the house. today I was down by the hives & saw the usual number of dead bees on the ground. I noticed that I'd  left my smoker behind the hives & when I picked it up I noticed a bee on the ground with a red dot on her her. looks like I lost a queen. the temps were in the low 90's & I used the correct dosage. the usda label says 51 ML/1.76 OZ/50 GR

Offline Jen

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2018, 10:15:25 pm »
Dang Mikey! I'm too afraid to use those treatments. I use OA because it won't hurt the queen. But in the beginning I used MAQS, and I'm considering Apivar this year for winter treatment.... maybe.
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Offline rober

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2018, 08:27:11 am »
mikey??
 maq, apiguard, & apivar all require warmer temperatures. you'd be wasting your money using any of these in the winter. when I used maq I lost several queens. iddee says they have since reformulated it to prevent that from happening. I never had a problem with apiguard for several years but last year I had a hive abscond & now it appears that I've lost a queen. I really dislike using any of this stuff but I like losing hives in the winter even less.

Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2018, 09:37:40 am »
Dang Mikey! I'm too afraid to use those treatments. I use OA because it won't hurt the queen. But in the beginning I used MAQS, and I'm considering Apivar this year for winter treatment.... maybe.
Oxalic Acid can hurt the queen too, if used improperly or too often.  In this area, we use OA in the fall, after the queen has quit laying.  It's a great, late treatment for broodless periods.

rober, the individual trays of apiguard contain 50 grams each.  That's the correct dosage.  There could have been some other factors at work that led to her loss.

Offline rober

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2018, 03:54:42 pm »
I weighed 50 GR in a laundry detergent scoop & compared that amount to what was in the open scoop that came with the apiguard. I've actually been using less than the proper dose. it was in the low 90's yesterday so that was probably not a factor.
who knows. i'll check hives in the next few days to see which hive she came from. it's kinda' late to buy another queen so i'll just combine that hive with another.

Offline Jen

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2018, 08:55:49 pm »
Sorry Rober, but I knew who I was talking too  ;)
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Offline rober

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2018, 08:10:02 am »
just being a weisenheimer

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 06:38:04 pm »
Dang Mikey! I'm too afraid to use those treatments. I use OA because it won't hurt the queen. But in the beginning I used MAQS, and I'm considering Apivar this year for winter treatment.... maybe.
Oxalic Acid can hurt the queen too, if used improperly or too often.  In this area, we use OA in the fall, after the queen has quit laying.  It's a great, late treatment for broodless periods.

   Do you have any links that state that? I want to message them and find out where they got that information?  Everything I have heard and been tol from european beekeepers says otherwise about OA harming your bees in vapor form.  Some of the tests I saw done treated teh bees with OA every week for several months, and there were no harmful effects, and in fact the honey showed no increase in the amount of OA in it. So...  I am seriously curious!

   Wait.. unless your talking Liquid oxalic acid treatments? If your talking the drench method, yeah your right! one too many treatments can actually kill the hive. Liquid OA has to be ingested by the bees, and it shortens their life span considerably. In summer when they only live a few weeks anyhow, it isn't oo bad, but for winter bees it can be DOOM!
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2018, 07:49:50 pm »
OK, Lazy, you may have me there!  ;D  I was referring to Randy Oliver's writing on spring/summer applications of OA. 

"Spring/summer application(s)* This is much less effective, since oxalic does not kill mites in the brood. There is some controversy as to summertime application (see Does it Harm the Bees?). You’re on your own here, but the bees seem to handle one shot well (even at high doses); multiple applications are more questionable. "
Referring to Fall/Winter applications, Randy writes, "Winter broodless application Oxalic acid is well researched for a Fall/Winter broodless application, or can be used in colonies made broodless by manipulation—such as (1) to treat package bees, or (2) to make “clean” nucs. Accurately measure 3-5ml of 3.5% w:w solution per seam of bees, and treat one time only, or you can harm your colonies."
Jennifer Berry, Bee Culture Magazine, September 2018, Go With What We Know! doesn't recommend the spray or mist method for the Average Joe beekeeper.  It's trickier to apply and much harder on the bees.
I will say, over the last several years, I have read members posting on the forum that they do frequent applications.  I do mean frequent.  If they should read this, they will who they are.  Oliver cautions against frequent treatments.  I drew my own conclusions.

Offline riverbee

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2018, 10:48:10 pm »
rober, i use apiguard gel paks and like apiguard. better than apivar, just my HO, too many problems with apivar and queen problems and other issues. not sure why you lost your queen?

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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 03:53:39 am »
I will have to go to his site and see if he is talking about vapor or liquid?
  I emailed him a couple years ago about some of his statements, asking for information, and he didn't reply. I tried three times, and then gave up. A couple places he states how "DEADLY" OA is if you breathe it, and I disagreed totally with him, because it is NOT POSSIBLE to breathe the stuff... don't ask me how I know.
   OA is in everything we get that grows from the soil. We eat it every day. OA is naturally already IN honey, and we eat that too. Our bodies can handle OA in trace amounts with no side effects. NOT, that I want to test the theory by eating any of it... but then, I wouldnt eat amatraz or any other mite treatments either.  :no:

   All I can really say with proof, is that I have been using OA vapor on my bees for over 4 years now, and it still works!  :yes:

 
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 05:44:05 am »


   All I can really say with proof, is that I have been using OA vapor on my bees for over 4 years now, and it still works!  :yes:
No doubt you use it in the recommended doses.  It does work. 
Shortly after reading the Jennifer Berry article, I got an email from a beekeeper friend trying to remember the dosage for using Randy Oliver's work shop towel method of OA application.  I referred her to www.scientificbeekeeping.com, but told her what Berry wrote.  Berry said that Randy's method using shop towels is considered illegal and doesn't work sufficiently.  It's only been about 1 1/2 years since OA, in dribble, mist, or sublimation form has been legal in Kansas. 

Offline rober

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 09:00:04 am »
I can't remember if I read or heard Jennifer Berry's comments spraying packages but she said that with packages she puts the bees in a dark cool place so that they cluster. then she sprays them with straight syrup so that the bees get glutted when they groom. being glutted they are less likely to consume the syrup the next day when they are sprayed with the acid/syrup mix. I wonder if the same theory could be applied when using the drizzle technique in the hive??
 in the august issue of ABJ on page 861 there's a graph comparing different miticides & showing how many bees vs mites are killed product by products. apiguard has the best rating with apivar, & apistan close behind. checkmite 1 & hopguard 1 killed the most bees while checkmite 2 & hopguard 2 did better.

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 02:54:42 pm »
Yeah, anything that kept them from consuming the liquid OA would be beneficial, but I have to wonder, how they get themselves cleaned up if they don't consume it?
   I need to grab that issue of ABJ and check that out, thanks for the tip!
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Offline rober

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2018, 06:02:26 pm »
i've talked to 2 local beekeepers that do not like apivar because the strips hang between frames & sometimes 1 side of the strip gets stuck to a frame & so that side does not release it's vapor. they also had higher winter losses & testing showed that mites were the cause meaning the apivar was not as effective. i've used apiguard for several years & as i said above that i'd not had any problems with it until last year 1 hive absconded the day after i treated thar apiary this year i found that queen on the ground. it's supposed to cool off next week so i'll go thru my hives here at the house & see what's going on queen-wise. 

here's a photo of theABJ graph. click on the photo.


Offline rober

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Re: my least favorite beekeeping activity-treating for mites
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2018, 03:29:18 pm »
 I had 2 weakfish single deep hives. one of which was the one the marked queen I found on the ground came from. I went thru both of those hives yesterday & both were dead. a few straggler or robber bees & wax moth webs & larva. I broke them down & froze the frames. knowing these hives were on the weak side I only gave them a 1/3 dose of apiiguard. while this is hardly a scientific study I've decided that I will no longer treat a weak hive or nuc with a miticide. O.A. maybe but nothing else.