What to do?

[PappyRick]

Hey folks.  I have an unexpected development (albeit, most developments in my short beekeeping experience are unexpected).  I am looking for some sage advice on how to best handle this situation.

I went out yesterday and inspected my 3 hives.  I have had a nuc box sitting out there because I have seen queen cells throughout the summer, and thought, "what the heck, I'll just give 'em a place to go if they decide to swarm".  Well, they did.  I have a small group of bees who have taken up residence in the nuc.  I did not find the queen.  Most of the bees were hanging on an empty frame with a starter strip.  I suspect the queen might have been in that mass and didn't knock them off to find her.   I started feeding 2:1 yesterday on all of the hives and the nuc.  The nuc has a frame of old brood wax, and one empty frame with a starter strip.  The remaining 3 frames are foundation, with no wax. I am estimating that I have maybe a frame and a half of bees, with a LOT of work to be done to build the wax out.

I saw very few eggs (might be my eyes) in the 3 hives.  Saw none in the nuc and there is no brood in the nuc.  The 3 hives are doing well, and there were a number of very nice brood frames in each of the hives.  Stores seem to me to be reasonable in the 3 hives.

I'm thinking the hives are positioned well to survive the winter, but obviously the nuc is not.  I am planning on continuing to feed 2:1 until the hives and the nuc stop taking it.  Am also considering stealing a brood frame from the strongest hive to supplement the nuc.  I certainly don't want to jeopardize the hives to try (and fail) to get the nuc through the winter.  I am thinking the nuc has a very poor chance of survival.

I am also considering taking a deep box out and transfering the nuc into that.  I have one built out frame of wax plus an empty frame with about 1/3 filled with wax that I can supplement the nuc frames with. 

I am in southern Illinois, and winter is coming.


Thanks in advance for any advice.  I realize that it may be hopeless for the nuc, but hate to just accept that.  PappyRick

[neillsayers]

I would tend to agree with you that the nuc is doomed. The thing to do is to dig in and find if there is a queen, If so you can try to help them with frames of capped brood and more nurse bees, but it may not be enough to get them in winter survival mode.

Find out what hive they came from and if they have a new queen and she is laying I would cull the old (swarmed) queen and combine them by newspaper combine.
 
Alternately, you could place the nuc frames in a full size brood box over an existing hive with a queen excluder in between. The bees in the existing lower box will keep the swarm warm and fed through winter and in the spring you can split the two.


I hope this is helpful.

[Lburou]

PappyRick, I miss your picture!  Didn't you have an Avatar with your picture hiking somewhere in the SouthWest?

You have a recipe for disappointment this late in your season.  I have kept NUCs in my shop over winter, putting them outside on days with flying weather here in Texas.  I fed them.  But, it worked because my winter is short and they had an established brood nest going into cold weather. 

P.S.  I would not spend resources on a NUC this late in your season, especially if you haven't seen evidence of a queen.

[Bakersdozen]

I saw very few eggs (might be my eyes) in the 3 hives.  Saw none in the nuc and there is no brood in the nuc.  The 3 hives are doing well, and there were a number of very nice brood frames in each of the hives.  Stores seem to me to be reasonable in the 3 hives.


I am also considering taking a deep box out and transfering the nuc into that.  I have one built out frame of wax plus an empty frame with about 1/3 filled with wax that I can supplement the nuc frames with. 

I am in southern Illinois, and winter is coming.

Re: very few eggs.  It' about this time the queen will start slowing down on egg production.
Re: putting the nuc into a deep brood box.  Don't give them more room than they can protect.  Robber bees & small hive beetles will take over the situation.
Re: location.  Yes, winter is coming.  We have a saying..."Take you losses in the fall."  You can combine that little nuc with another colony now, after you make sure the queen is not with them.  In the spring, split that colony.  It won't be a loss under those conditions.

[neillsayers]

I though about this while I was watching the news. My second option wouldn't work unless one placed a screen between the two boxes. Otherwise all the bees would move up and strand the poor queen behind or vice versa. Sorry! 

[PappyRick]

Thanks for the ideas and input.  It makes sense to me that the bees won't survive, and putting them into a deep box is probably not a good idea.  I found two deep frames of partially built out comb in my shop and will probably place those in the NUC next trip out.  Will continue to feed the 2:1 probably for the rest of October.  I'm figuring the temps will shut them down on that soon.

I had thought about moving a brood frame, but Lburou convinced my not to do that.  I think I would simply add bees to the losses.

On the idea of combining the NUC with one of the other colonies, I think I had seen some posts on combining NUCs with 10 frames, but can't remember the methods used.  How would you suggest combining?

Thanks again for the advice.  PappyRick

[tedh]

I'd use a nuc introduction board (it'd be easy to make if you don't own one) and do a newspaper combine, or move the nuc into a ten frame deep and do a newspaper combine.  Then when the bees "mix" you can remove the nuc, if that makes sense.  Ted

[riverbee]

as ted said, i would combine that nuc with a stronger hive. it is hard to lose bees, but easy to combine if not too cranky and old or queenless. even then, bees are pretty happy to have a queen right home.  good luck and let us know what you decide to do.