Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: iddee on December 21, 2013, 09:55:19 am

Title: Solstice
Post by: iddee on December 21, 2013, 09:55:19 am
The days getting longer is one sign the bees see and heed. They will think spring and brood rearing. Here is a bit I posted on my local club board, but thought some here may benefit from it, too. I am in NC, so adjust to your climate.

""Now is the time to think spring. Walk up to the back of your hive. Take hold of the handle on both sides. Lift. If it is very heavy, all is well. If it is light, think FEED.
Do this once per week. In Feb. or Mar., you will notice it becoming lighter. This is when they can starve. They are feeding 20,000 new babies and the cupboard can become bare quickly.

If you start lifting now, once weekly, by then you will know what it should feel like, and which hives need feed.

CAUTION: Once you start feeding for spring, they will ramp up brooding. They can run out of food and starve the whole hive within 2 to 4 days. NEVER let the feeder get empty once spring feeding has began.""
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Slowmodem on December 21, 2013, 11:10:26 am
That's some great advice.  Today is the shortest day of the year.  They only get longer now until June.  Around here it hasn't really started getting cold yet.  That's usually after January 1st.  But hive monitoring only takes a few minutes (if you only have a few hives), and the time spent is a good investment.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 22, 2013, 12:51:16 pm
I like this information Iddee. Now, when you say 'feed' you mean sugar syrup right?

If I have to feed, would winter patties still ramp up brooding? Or... is that a pollen thing?
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: iddee on December 22, 2013, 01:16:36 pm
Jaybird, feeding for winter storage is different than feeding for spring. Putting feed in the hive for winter is used for survival. Feeding for spring is liquid feed brought into the hive by the bees. It makes them think the flow is on and they ramp up brood rearing to catch the flow.

Solid feed inside the hive will not cause brood rearing. Liquid feed from outside the hive will.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 22, 2013, 03:54:18 pm
K, so, we are then tricking the bees in to early brooding?
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: iddee on December 22, 2013, 04:11:35 pm
Yes, if you start feeding outside before mother nature does.
Once mother nature starts, she doesn't stop, neither can you, once you start.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 22, 2013, 06:34:05 pm
What is the purpose of tricking the bees to brood early?

Is it to make more bees sooner so that the beekeeper can acquire more hives?
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: G3farms on December 22, 2013, 06:47:00 pm
Yes, especially if you are wanting to do splits or are using them for pollination. Most farmers that rent hives for pollination want so many frames of bees since they are paying per hive. A frame box with two frames of bees would not cut it.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 22, 2013, 07:00:30 pm
K. so, I like to reiterate to sink it in to my head.

Feed bees early so they make more bees sooner, so beekeepers can gain more hives for a bigger bee yard and/or to rent out hives for farmers. Got it!

However, I have one hive, two deeps tall. I'm going to split it this spring and start another hive. I doubt I'll want to split again to make three hives (I think, at this point in time). Or if I have to split agian or they swarm, I will donate them to another beek.

So! I'm not seeing why I need to feed sugar syrup early. I don't want to feed syrup at all. I just want a couple of happy hives that I can trade with if one of them needs help.  Right?

Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: iddee on December 22, 2013, 07:51:26 pm
Your bees will begin to brood up at about 15 Feb.. If they have plenty to feed the young until nature begins supplying, don't feed. 95% of bees that starve to death do so between 15 Feb. and the first blooms. If they need it to feed the new 20,000 mouths, give it to them.

On the other hand, if they brood naturally, you should be able to split 20 to 25 thousand bees and have two hives build up enough to live through the winter.

If you keep sugar water and pollen sub going to them from Feb.1 through the day they quit using it, you can split 40,000 bees into two hives that will give a honey harvest the same year.

50 different beekeeping methods are all correct, for 50 different goals.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 22, 2013, 09:45:29 pm
Ya know... I'm your toughest newbee on feeding sugar syrup. Have to think about it.

Scratching head... visions of honey plums dancing in my head. I may have to feed until I can get a store of honey frames in the freezer.   

Thinking.... thinking... sure would be nice to have a jar of my own honey...   
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: iddee on December 22, 2013, 10:06:24 pm
 ;D ;D ;D


You are one of my favorite newbees. Just think of all the newbees your posts will help in the future. Keep the questions coming.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 22, 2013, 11:10:10 pm
Awe Shucks! You're making me blush!

No problem there, I'm a ticker tape of questions?
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: LazyBkpr on December 23, 2013, 09:22:06 am

   I have heard the generalization, that "spring" moves north about ten miles a day?  which would make us... a month or so behind you ??

   Cant get into the hives at the moment...   FRIGID out there, the wind is rolling the snow across the field, making it look like waves on the ocean.. from about NOW, to the end of February the weather wont change much...  If the prep I did wasnt enough I'm going to lose bees   :'(   -3 degrees.. wind gusting to 20 mph..
   The nights wont hit the 50's regularly until late April, though I have pulled people out of cars in MID April riding the snowmobile down the highway over 12 - 15 foot drifts..
   I have never attempted to feed before the night time temps hit the 50's.. SO...   I will have to assume, that even down there you have to feed.. Inside the hives? Feeder jars over the inner cover hole with a hive body around them?

   I have serious worries about a jar of liquid over top my bees.. the stupid temps here JUMP about so much...  I have seen my feed jars warm up and dump half a cup of syrup into the feeders..  on my open feeders... they just clean it up.. on boardmans they get soaked, and when I pull the feeder off I often find it packed solid with dead bees from the excess syrup..
   So I quit using them in situations like that, and OPEN feed like a madman when the temps come up...  However...  in hoping to do splits...   A LOT of splits...
    Is there a trick to keeping those feeders from dumping syrup as they warm up?   Or do I need to invest in the hive top feeders?
  Thanks!
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: iddee on December 23, 2013, 09:43:11 am
I do not use in-hive feeders at that time of year. I put the syrup a good distance from the hives, so it won't induce robbing. I set the jar on two wood strips rather than a boardman if the bees are hitting it heavy. If they aren't crowding it, I may use boardmans. In hive feeders mean you have to open the hive. As stated above, I take the feed inside to keep it warm as the weather cools in the evening, putting it back out the next day when the temp is high enough. I would never open the hive that often. I can also top off the jars in the house when needed, without disturbing the bees.

PS. It was 75 F. here yesterday. Forecast is for 24 F. tomorrow night. Yes, we have the quick change weather system .
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Slowmodem on December 23, 2013, 12:04:55 pm
Consider putting a gallon ziplock bag full of syrup on a table or block or something.  Take a stick pin and poke some holes in the top.  Easy-peasy.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi585.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss298%2FSlowmodem_photo%2FBees%2F2011-11-04_15-06-34b.jpg&hash=4dd0a72ecc045c9257cfa9bbed7ae8f6839e4eaf)

Of course,  this is for when the temperature allows.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 23, 2013, 05:44:27 pm
What is a boardman?
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 23, 2013, 05:51:45 pm
Re: the last two posts lazy and Iddee ~ I won't be able to feed syrup until later in the year. We can get 2plus feet of snow in April. Wouldn't this constitute a candy board, or fondant, or just drivert sugar on parchment paper right right on the top bars?
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: iddee on December 23, 2013, 05:59:02 pm
Boardman feeder

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=211

Feed for survival just like you are saying. When the weather breaks, feed for increase.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 23, 2013, 06:16:07 pm
Oh yes... I have one of those that I used before I became rebelious about sugar syrup.

Lazy: "I have serious worries about a jar of liquid over top my bees.. the stupid temps here JUMP about so much...  I have seen my feed jars warm up and dump half a cup of syrup into the feeders..  on my open feeders... they just clean it up.. on boardmans they get soaked, and when I pull the feeder off I often find it packed solid with dead bees from the excess syrup..
   So I quit using them in situations like that, and OPEN feed like a madman when the temps come up...  However...  in hoping to do splits...   A LOT of splits...
    Is there a trick to keeping those feeders from dumping syrup as they warm up?   Or do I need to invest in the hive top feeders?
  Thanks!"

I already posted on this one, I post again here. Wouldn't this constitute a sugar board, fondant, or drivert sugar on parchment paper?
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: LazyBkpr on December 23, 2013, 07:13:09 pm
Jay thats exactly what I do.. I use sugar on newspaper across the top bars..   WInter being what it is here I put this on when they get the final wrap for the winter.
   WITH luck I get a chance to check on them sometime before March, but it looks like this winter will be one of those that we wont get decent temps until March arrives..  25 below wind chill tonight -13 without the wind...   I'll be amazed if they survive till I can look in on them.
   FA few years ago the wife and I were horseback riding on the third of January when it was 50 degrees wondering if it meant global warming had arrived in our neck of the woods...    NOPE, not here yet!
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: blueblood on December 23, 2013, 08:02:06 pm
Good info and reminder Iddee, thanks!
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 23, 2013, 08:35:08 pm
Lazy, in the winter at what temp do you open your lid?

Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: LazyBkpr on December 23, 2013, 08:44:36 pm
50 in a NECESSARY situation or emergency, 60+ for inspection..
  I've seen others open hives (in vids) wearing parkas with snow blowing all about.. and can hear my mentor calling the perpetrator a darned greenhorn...
   According to him...  If you have put the sugar on, and left them enough honey for even a bad winter, you have NO business in their business till you can get by with a long sleeved shirt...     for what its worth.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 23, 2013, 10:17:49 pm
Good Metaphor. I needed to get in and put popsicle sticks on the top rim about a week or so ago, but I waited for a 50 day. Hubby and I are so clumsy when we are doing work right next to each other, it was a bit comical.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 23, 2013, 10:20:30 pm
and when you add the sugar on newspaper and then button up the hive, do you ever see moldy sugar when you open it up again?
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: LazyBkpr on December 24, 2013, 09:13:39 am

   Not to this point..   I think that has some to do with the top vent allowing most of the moisture to get out.  Will try to get pics of the hives this spring when I open them up.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: blueblood on December 24, 2013, 10:55:57 am
I have avoided putting granulated sugar on my hives in the winter because I understood bees do not have the water sources like they do in warmer weather to help invert the sugar.  True or False? 
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: iddee on December 24, 2013, 11:13:41 am
Water in hives in winter is the biggest killer of colonies. So yes, they do have water. The sugar absorbs some of it, which may help the bees more than the food aspect.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: Jen on December 24, 2013, 12:36:54 pm
Blue- I haven't used sugar feeding yet, but might have to this year. It's my understanding that drivert sugar is the best to use, because it's very finely ground sugar and easier for the bees to digest. Don't use powdered sugar!
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: riverbee on December 24, 2013, 03:14:57 pm
what iddee said, the bees will utilize it, not the best option, more for emergency purposes really.  i know many beeks do use sugar for winter feed like lazy does.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: LazyBkpr on December 24, 2013, 05:20:41 pm
The divert sugar doesnt have the anti clumping stuff, makes for better blocks and less mess than normal granulated sugar..      As Iddee said, there IS condensation in the hive, the trick is to make sure there isnt too much..  I imagine if there is NONE that the bees wont make use of sugar at all..   I KNOW what I do is controversial and others have had problems.. but I have to wonder how many of those problems are climate and method related??  In all the years I have been assisting I have not SEEN the problems I have seen others having..  that does NOT mean I wont...   As It was taught to me.. the sugar going on at the outset of cold weather wont be touched, or fussed with because the bees are in cluster closer to the bottom of the hive, and will begin to work their way to the top..    Depending on the winter and amount of stores they use..  They MAY reach the Sugar, and begin using it.. if they DONT reach the top, then  they will likely not have touched the sugar..
   It needs to come out before they become so active they start cutting up the paper to get it out of their way, so you cant just leave it on there..  Once they start flying Well I have the open feeders set up, the sugar comes off and becomes syrup..   so nothing is wasted...
   Right, or wrong.. thats what I was taught, and it is working... so far..   (knocks on wood)
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: riverbee on December 26, 2013, 12:43:44 pm
lazy, there is nothing right or wrong in beekeeping, if it works, don't try to fix it until it is broken..... :)

and as iddee has always said, beekeeping is regional. also, a good point by you, climate and method.
Title: Re: Solstice
Post by: BoilerJim on December 31, 2013, 01:29:09 pm
CAUTION: Once you start feeding for spring, they will ramp up brooding. They can run out of food and starve the whole hive within 2 to 4 days. NEVER let the feeder get empty once spring feeding has began.""
[/quote]

Thanks iddee. I think I have violated this rule in the past and paid a hefty price for my mistake.