Author Topic: Roundup and honey bees  (Read 12893 times)

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Offline hamptor

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Roundup and honey bees
« on: August 17, 2015, 03:33:48 pm »
I've been doing some reading about Roundup and honeybees.  I've read several articles on the internet that indicate that although it may not be toxic to honeybees, it may affect their sensitivity to nectar and ability to eat/digest it, and impair their learning ability among other things.  These studies seem to be done  with large fields of crops, including some Monsanto GMO corn crops, etc.  I'm curious about this because we have used Roundup for years at our house on the weeds in our natural areas and around the yard.  I don't want to do anything to hurt my bees, so I'm trying to figure out if this is a "Don't use it at all" thing or if it won't affect them if used in small quantities on plants they don't pollinate or attend to. 
Anyone else use Roundup or have knowledge about research on use of Roundup in smaller quantities/areas?

Offline Perry

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2015, 05:22:48 pm »
My younger brother (who sells ag. chemicals) told me I was better off drinking a glass of roundup instead of a glass of vinegar. We no longer discuss anything bee or ag. related after that little discussion. >:(
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Offline lazy shooter

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 07:18:46 pm »
It MAY affect their ability to learn, and then again, it MAY not.  Don't you wonder how a honey bee's IQ is tested?  I too use some roundup, and I have no clue if it adversely affects the bees.  The weeds I spray with it adversely affect my ranch.

Offline Yankee11

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2015, 10:17:10 pm »
I have about 50 hives right now sitting on fields of soybeans, cotton, corn, sunflower, etc. There s hardly a weed on the ground around these crops and these hives are all thriving.
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Offline tecumseh

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 05:29:49 am »
there are lots of things that will negatively impact a beehive (for some reason a 'new beekeeper' is the first thing that come to mind???) but there are two principles I think folks need to think about when it comes to this kind of question....  1) there are lots of thing that negatively impact a honeybee either as an individual or collectively poses a much larger risk than roundup (ie how harmful is this item in a relative sense) and 2) try to worry about those things that you can do something about and no so much about the things you cannot.

not so understandable is.... invariable I find folks that worry about issues like this have never raised a darn thing to put in their month or to sustain their family and without these things which they seem to worry endlessly about they would (collectively) likely starve.

Offline hamptor

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2015, 10:53:22 am »
So Yankee 11, if you've got 50 thriving hives on fields without weeks, that's a pretty good testimony. 
However, Perry - I'm with you - not drinking a glass of Roundup!

Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2015, 12:25:37 pm »
Roundup only kills what it touches, that is why they use it in no till farming, in other words you can kill weeds, grass, sprouts, ect. and plant at the same time. Corn is wind pollinated the bees only work the tossel for pollen. Anything that kills can't be a good thing, but there are things alot worse than roundup out there. Jack
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Offline Chip Euliss

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2015, 10:38:08 pm »
I've been doing some reading about Roundup and honeybees.  I've read several articles on the internet that indicate that although it may not be toxic to honeybees, it may affect their sensitivity to nectar and ability to eat/digest it, and impair their learning ability among other things.  These studies seem to be done  with large fields of crops, including some Monsanto GMO corn crops, etc.  I'm curious about this because we have used Roundup for years at our house on the weeds in our natural areas and around the yard.  I don't want to do anything to hurt my bees, so I'm trying to figure out if this is a "Don't use it at all" thing or if it won't affect them if used in small quantities on plants they don't pollinate or attend to. 
Anyone else use Roundup or have knowledge about research on use of Roundup in smaller quantities/areas?

I think the bottom line is that we have too few studies now to say much about impacts on honeybees with any degree of certainty.  That said, we do know that roundup causes immunosuppresion, hermaphroditism, sex reversal, and outright mortality in some vertebrate animals (google R. Relyea and his papers on amphibians and other animals) and we're starting to see some reputable papers on negative impacts on insects.  These impacts extend far beyond just the plant and how it reacts to Roundup.  We have a paper in review that demonstrated immunosuppresion and higher mortality in honeybees from high-intensity row crop agricultural areas versus areas with less ag (e.g., pastures).  Don't know why so subsequent studies will be required but the findings mirror those published for other animals (e.g., spade foot toads in the southern Great Plains).  Sadly, our contemporary landscape is changing so fast that implementing enough scientific investigations to evaluate all the potential impacts just isn't feasible.  For all the bad things that CCD did, it bring to public consciousness the plight of bees and has pumped some much-needed funds into bee research.  We're much farther along in our thinking than we were a decade ago.

Yep, Roundup is just one of many things we have little control over but we don't have to like it nor do we have to use on our personal properties.  I suspect that you have a very good idea which plant species attract bees and which ones do not.  I use it but very carefully and not broadcast over large areas.  Somehow, turning a leopard frog into a hermaphrodite doesn't appeal to me!!

Good question by the way!
Chip

Offline Chip Euliss

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2015, 10:52:44 pm »
My younger brother (who sells ag. chemicals) told me I was better off drinking a glass of roundup instead of a glass of vinegar. We no longer discuss anything bee or ag. related after that little discussion. >:(

I'd take a glass of a good cabernet over Roundup or vinegar :laugh:
Chip

Offline apisbees

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2015, 11:04:50 pm »
I have been served some home brews that would make the roundup and vinegar taste good.
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Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2015, 11:30:40 pm »
Apis, when i was a youngster i remember seeing men walking erratically down our gravel road once in a while.One day i ask grandpa why they walked that way? He called them Jake legs, caused by bad liquor. (Moonshine)? Anybody else ever hear that terminology??? Jack
PS. Maybe that's what would happen if a person drank Roundup, if they didn't die first. :-\

Offline Chip Euliss

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2015, 11:31:44 pm »
I have been served some home brews that would make the roundup and vinegar taste good.

I've had a few of those myself!  I used to brew years ago and substituted honey for about half the malt in a few of my recipes.  Still have fond memories of a honey porter I used to brew.  Still not very good at retirement but once I get it perfected, maybe I'll find time to brew again 8)
Chip

Offline Chip Euliss

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2015, 11:36:53 pm »
Apis, when i was a youngster i remember seeing men walking erratically down our gravel road once in a while.One day i ask grandpa why they walked that way? He called them Jake legs, caused by bad liquor. (Moonshine)? Anybody else ever hear that terminology??? Jack
PS. Maybe that's what would happen if a person drank Roundup, if they didn't die first. :-\

When I was a kid, I remember the old folks calling those who had a bit too much to drink Jake Legs.  Grew up in Virginia in a county where the primary occupations were:  1) making moonshine and 2) delivering moonshine!!!!
Chip

Offline tecumseh

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2015, 06:19:47 am »
a snip...I'd take a glass of a good cabernet over Roundup or vinegar'

I am definitely not the drinker I once was.  I do 'know folks' that bring me a small jar of home made hooch (corn liquor and tequilla but not from the same cooker or for that matter the same country < all quite exceptional I might add which makes me believe that just like in keeping bees distilling alcohol does require some basic knowledge). 

Offline Chip Euliss

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2015, 10:02:11 am »
a snip...I'd take a glass of a good cabernet over Roundup or vinegar'

I am definitely not the drinker I once was.  I do 'know folks' that bring me a small jar of home made hooch (corn liquor and tequilla but not from the same cooker or for that matter the same country < all quite exceptional I might add which makes me believe that just like in keeping bees distilling alcohol does require some basic knowledge).

Me neither; possessing basic knowledge is needed for a successful start of most every pursuit.  To be exceptional requires considerable experience and knowledge.  If I remember correctly, jake legs was a temporary sign of less than exceptional hooch!  My dad had a bird dog that rarely pointed a bird but she did point where our local moonshiner stored his 'fresh' hooch.  I was too young at the time to understand why he liked the dog so much :laugh:
Chip

Offline Zweefer

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2015, 10:52:24 am »
I have been served some home brews that would make the roundup and vinegar taste good.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I would like to think my craft is a bit more passable than that...
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2015, 12:03:03 pm »
we use round up hamptor. what tec and jack said.  in the big picture of things...........common sense maybe with it's use? we use it to kill the weeds that grow in front of the hives and to keep the electric fence weed free............we don't spray when the bees are flying. i use it once, and later in the season i just weed whack.  we also use it in our prairie restoration/pollination planting areas. we have a company we are working with now to restore an area in a meadow near the river.  without the use of roundup to kill the junk that is growing, planting anything would be useless and a waste of money.  the areas we have already sprayed/prepared/planted are absolutely beautiful and full of all sorts of pollinator plants. 
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Offline badgerbeekernube66

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2015, 06:16:04 pm »
Where we placed our second hive this spring is next to friends food plot and he had used a good amount of roundup on the section he planted corn in. I was a little worried at first, as I'm not a chemical kind of gardener. As it turns out this is by far our most successful hive. Not saying this is conclusive results and everyone will be OK using round up on everything, I'm just saying...... ;)

Offline Ray

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2015, 07:53:55 pm »
poison is ....poison, period! Use it at OUR peril.
A necessary evil? Possibly! Accepting the status quo is NOT an option.
Weed free fields? Where does Mother Nature's children feed?
Is the Honey Bee the Canary in the mine, or is it the Monarch Butterfly?
I'm off the soap box now. IMO don't use any poisons.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Roundup and honey bees
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2015, 08:35:34 pm »
With NO poisons, bodies and plants would quit producing anti-bodies, and would become totally susceptible to any and every thing that happened to come along. Enough poisons are needed to keep our bodies working, or immune deficiency becomes the norm.
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