Author Topic: Swarm Questions  (Read 4487 times)

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Offline Mikey N.C.

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Swarm Questions
« on: February 24, 2019, 12:27:49 pm »
I've caught maybe 10 or so. Most will hit a tree in beeyard . If don't get to them in time I'm told they'll leave.  Is there any study that shows just how far they will travel. 1,2,3 miles ?  Or do they just keep going until they find a suitable home ?

Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2019, 05:31:54 pm »
Good question, Mikey.  The swarm will bivouac temporarily close by the original hive. After the scout bees have found a suitable new home they will move to that location. But I'm sure you knew that. I always assumed that they would remain with in foraging distance.  1-2 miles on average and up to 5 if desperate.  This what I have assumed, but don't know the scientific answer.
I have heard on numerous occasions that bad beekeepers, that let their colonies swarm, make bad neighbors.  Meaning the swarms find their way to neighbor's houses and  holes in their siding, missing brick mortar, etc. 
I know there are times when the scouts don't find a perfect location quickly and they will remain bivouacked longer.  A little wax drawn on the temporary location is a good indicator of that. 
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Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2019, 06:12:54 pm »
B13,
No didn't know about bivouac. Thanks for that information.  I've tried to bee line bee's in the woods and can't find them.
I'm almost positive that there's a feral hive in the woods behind my house on the old Rockefeller railroad bed. Can't find it. That's why i'm asking how far .

Offline iddee

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2019, 07:13:40 pm »
I don't know how far, but I do know they can go 1/4 mile plus.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein
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Offline tecumseh

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2019, 07:11:53 am »
I think Seeley has that information in his book Honeybee Democracy... from what I can recall the range in distance is pretty large with the mean being about 1000 feet or 1/4 mile.  Availability of nesting sites would be a consideration... < the rule I guess that applies here is not too close but not so far the queen cannot make the flight.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 09:41:41 pm »
Hi Mikey, from what I've learned and go by, is that once the bees have made up their mind to swarm, they start building queen cells. And, at that point in time the scout bees start searching for new digs. When the swarm dispatches and the bees get the queen landed and covered, then the scouts go out and refine their search to the best one. I haven't known how far they will take the queen before landing, but I like the idea that it's not further than a quarter mile as others have stated. I see it as the longer they have her in flight the more vulnerable she is to getting plucked by a bird.
There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2019, 06:58:28 am »
. I see it as the longer they have her in flight the more vulnerable she is to getting plucked by a bird.

I think there is slim chance of a bird eating her.  She could get injured though.  Anything is possible.  It is my understanding that while in flight the bees are constantly rotating around her as she flies, making sure that the workers following behind are getting her pheromones.

Mikey, also it usually takes a good nectar flow for the honey bees to swarm.  Not always, because we will see some swarms in July and August.  Around here, that's a dearth period.  Sometimes bees will abscond but that is because of pests or disease in the hive.  Those are last ditch efforts to survive.

Offline neillsayers

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2019, 01:34:15 pm »
Mikey,

You might find this interesting. I'm considering putting one up this season.
Neill Sayers
Herbhome Bees
USDA Zone 7a
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Offline Jen

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 03:31:48 pm »
 "It is my understanding that while in flight the bees are constantly rotating around her as she flies, making sure that the workers following behind are getting her pheromones. "

 Baker, that is a cool bit of info there  :)
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 07:25:55 am »
I consulted my copy of Honey Bee Biology and Beekeeping by Dewey Caron.
Here are some interesting tidbits about swarming that he writes:
"Bees of all ages will join the swarm.  An average of 50 drones will join with the swarm.  The drones don't gorge themselves with honey prior to swarming.   During the swarm, bees from other colonies may join, especially if they are from a queenless colony.
Upon exiting the original nest site, swarms move en masse to a temporary cluster site, usually near the parent colony. before subsequent movement to the eventual new home site.  The mass of bees in flight may extend 50-100 ft. in diameter and 6-20 ft. high.  The interaction of queen pheromone and worker scent gland is important in retaining the cohesiveness of the flying mass of bees.  Individual bees fly in a circular pattern with in the swarm.  The queen does not lead a swarm but there must a queen present for the swarm cluster to remain at the bivouac site. "  "Scout bees guide the flight by direct back and forth flights and "lead" the flying mass of bees to the chosen site." 
I am still looking for an answer on distance.  Wikipedia quotes Jose Villa regarding swarm traveling distance.  Jose's research says 1 kilometer or 6/10ths of a mile.  I've heard Jose Villa speak before and he is a credible source.

For those of us who have had a particularly harsh winter (most of the country), Caron writes: " Swarms may be more numerous in years with mild winters or early springs following a mild fall.  These are seasons when drones appear early in colonies that have been stimulated with syrup feeding."

Offline iddee

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 09:01:32 am »
Two things I disagree with. They will not always use a temporary cluster site. I have followed them from hive exit to new home, non-stop. They will also, at times, go as high as 70-100 feet altitude during flight.
I know of a local colony in the top of a commercial water tower, several hundred feet high.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein

Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2019, 12:52:14 pm »
There are always exceptions in beekeeping and life.
I thought about why Mikey's original question is seldom talked about.  Unless you are a researcher and working in conditions that you have created yourself, like Tom Seeley has written about, you may not be able to follow a colony that is swarming.  There are subdivisions, fences, no trespassing signs, etc. 
When I heard Jose Villa speak, I believe he, along with Marla Spivak, Mark Winston, Chip Taylor, and others were working in Mexico or South America.  They were setting up experiments to study and reporting the results.   Tests were done in a controlled situation.  No fences.

Offline Jen

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2019, 12:25:43 pm »
Baker "I consulted my copy of Honey Bee Biology and Beekeeping by Dewey Caron.
Here are some interesting tidbits about swarming that he writes"

Great tidbits here, going to print and share with my bee club.



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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2019, 04:09:47 pm »
Jen, the whole book is phenomenal!  There is so much practical information in there.  The book has been revised several times.  I believe I have the most current copy.   It's a lot like a college text book (it probably was). 

Offline Lburou

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Re: Swarm Questions
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2019, 12:30:50 am »
Karl von Frisch followed & studied swarms in Germany after WWII, but for the life of me I can't relocate his writings on the subject.  During and after the war, it was easy for him to follow the swarms because bees didn't have to fly around anything...just over the rubble.  This made his initial studies of swarm behavior easier. 

Dr. Tom Seeley wrote an outstanding pdf called "Anatomy of a swarm".  Very informative.  HTH   :)
Lee_Burough
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