Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Jen on September 25, 2017, 02:34:11 pm
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Been listening to Green Bee a bit about his Wayne's Bees. I went to the website he posted, and found some interesting info on these bees and mites, or the lack thereof. This could be a solution for my friend who because of her beliefs cannot treat her bees. All of her hives this year have absconded, we in the bee club are pretty certain it's because of mite overload.
I to am interested in keeping Wayne's Bees. How would I do this with the other existed hives I have in my yard?
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Ted or Scott will have more to say about them than I can. :-[
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Okay thanks Perry! And thanks for always being one of this forum first responders :) 8) You are real good at that
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Talked to iddee last week said they're starting preps. for winter
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Jen my experience with Wayne’s bees is limited so all I can say is what Wally has told me. He says the genetics of the mite resistance follows the queen and not the drone. So in his opinion the Drone plays little role in mite resistance. He told me that he has never lost a colony of Wayne’s bees to mites with exceptions of one that he knows of. He told me just the other day that if I lost my bees to mites he would replace the queen. I think he thinks(and I agree with him) the bees are gonna have to build there own resistance to mites with little help from us if there going to survive.
At this point I have one hive with high mite counts that hasn’t been treated for mites and want get treated. But what I can say is this particular hive dwindled down to half its size with very little brood and eggs . The bees wasn’t active hardly at all and they were very aggressive. In fact I thought the queen was failing. I did a mite count (sugar roll) at the time I noticed the problem and got eleven mites. Now I did feed a product to them that claims to help bees with certain issues but not mites (hive alive) but for the most part it’s a natural product made of seaweeds a small amount of lemon gras oil and a small amount of thymol. Anyway the first of this month I picked up a Wayne’s queen thinking it was probably gonna be my last chance this season to get one. I took her to the yard the following day to install her and the bees had done a complete 360. So I gave the queen to a friend and he put here in one of his hives. Roughly three weeks later witch was yesterday I did another mite count and got 17. The video I posted in the other thread is from that hive yesterday. With that high of a might count something funny has to be going on in that hive. Either the hive alive helped or the Wayne’s bees is no joke. May be a little of both. But that’s exactly the way it happend. The other three Wayne’s hives has very few mights. Now after I told wally what had happened he said that a lot of people tell him exactly what I told him.
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Maybe the big guy himself will chime in and explain a little better than I can. :D
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Gbee... I think you are doing a great job of explaining... so far I'm following what you are saying... and that is a plus for you and for me ;) 8) ;D
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Wayne's queens are the best! They are egg laying machines, draw wax like fiends and have consistently produced more honey than any other hives we have. Having said that, we did loose two Wayne's hives last winter. One to nosema and i believe the other broke cluster on one of the warm days, then the temps dropped like a rock and they tried to cluster where they were. We found four or five dead clusters scattered throughout the hive. Not all the waynes queens we introduced were accepted for long, there were, I think 3 that were superceeded almost immediately. We've had better luck introducing them to smaller colonies, nucs, etc. then combining with other queenless colonies as opposed to introducing them to strong mature hives. That's just what we found to work better. I'm impressed enough to keep adding a few more each year. That, and what can I say? Keith is a great guy to work with. If they were closer I'd do all my business with Bee Needz. Just my experiance, Ted
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"Been listening to Green Bee a bit about his Wayne's Bees. I went to the website he posted, and found some interesting info on these bees and mites, or the lack thereof. This could be a solution for my friend who because of her beliefs cannot treat her bees. All of her hives this year have absconded, we in the bee club are pretty certain it's because of mite overload."
jen, just a comment, there is no silver bullet however there are breeds (and mutt bees)of bees that can survive inspite of the mites.........with that said, the solution for your friend is this; her bees absconded for a reason...........is this person a beehaver or a beekeeper? cuz i don't understand the concept of keeping bees and letting them suffer and die out or abscond because of a religious or personal belief not to treat. i may offend some by saying this, but i am not going to apologize for what i just said. we all work too hard to keep our bees/queens healthy and alive and i really have no time for those who have no interest in doing so because of a personal belief. in addition, no matter what bee or queen it is, if the personal belief not to treat continues to be the decision maker, then there is no bee on this planet that will survive and prosper.
i don't mean to be harsh, but it is a fact. i have kept bees too long and when i hear this stuff or someone tells me they want to keep bees 'organically' in an 'unorganic' planet i say good luck, it ain't happening. let's be real. ?
green bee, hive alive or wayne's bees? my money is on the bees and the queen, maybe the 'hive alive' gave them a little boost. sometimes it's all they need and sometimes we never know.
EDIT AND ADD:
:)
i have very strong thoughts on this subject, so not meant to offend anyone. would any of us allow our critters to suffer? bees are insects, we can't take them to the vet. but we as BEEKEEPERS learn to recognize symptoms or see what may be and might be affecting them or ask someone more knowledgeable to help us and act accordingly. if we don't we lose them.
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Hi Riverbee, you are a solid voice on this forum to be sure.
If there is anything I have learned these last 8 years of beekeeping, is that nothing is certain! And, every beekeeper I know eventually runs their hives the way they want to. That's the nice thing about keeping bees for me, is that I've learned how to develop my own successes.
On the other hand, I don't mind brainstorming solutions for other beekeepers. Sometimes, at our bee meetings, we find solutions, sometimes we don't.
One of the things I hear beeks complain about the most, is how much expense it takes to keep bees mite and disease free, and finding the time to get the treatments done. The newbees, will buy their package/nuc, then something happens to their queen so they have to buy another one. Then they have to buy a truck load of sugar. Then they have to buy a bee suit... and on and on. So the newbees can get frustrated fast.
It occurred to me, even for my own beekeeping, that if we had Wayne's bees here in my territory that some of the treating issue could be eased with bees that could be mite free, or close to it.
I do have some more research to do. I would have to be successful with the Wayne's bees first to be able to offer queens to others in my area. I think i'll be working on that.
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Interesting side note: A couple years ago we GAVE my oldest brother 2 deeps, 2 medium supers (all 4 boxes with frames), a bottom board, inner cover, tele cover, gauntlet gloves, veil, hive tool and a 3lb package of bees along with instructions and a demonstration on how to work/ inspect a hive. He pretty much ignored the bees except for feeding, treating for mites and looking occasionally to see if they were stilll entering and exiting the hive. They survived the first summer, swarmed the second and died that winter. This past spring we SOLD him a nuc. He's been a diligent beekeeper since. I think a certain amount of expense makes it more of an investment and therefore makes some more willing to do what's necessary. Back to the topic. Ted
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I keep 50+ hives now, I always wanted to get too 100 hives, ? i got up to 92 hives at one time and with cattle and trying to truck farm at the same time, well there was not enough time in a day to do it right :no:.I had hives that i had neglected for two years and was going strong? I left them alone as an experiment and it has been over 15 years and they are still going. I inspect them every year and put supers on only when needed. I have at times seen supersede cell in them and have taken frames with eggs from them to start nuc's, these hives are 60 miles from home in another county so if they have swarmed (and probable have) i wouldn't know it? I lost one of them last year (shb) that was strong and had surplus honey on it, i'm thinking they probably swarmed and while trying to build back up the shb took over? I have not treated for mites for several years now and i do lose a hive now and then mostly from bought queens or swarms i've caught. I am in no way saying anything negative about the Wayne's bees, :no: i bought some a few years back and put the in my home yard, but did not write down or kept track of which ones :-[ and there are three here that are treatment free for over 5 years? Jen, not trying to take over your post :no: Just thought i would give some input to this and maybe Stire the Squirt Up a Little. :laugh: :laugh: Jack
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Riverbee you wil never offend me by saying how you truly feel, I think you and I are not as far apart on our thoughts as you think. The reason I chose not to treat is because I gave my word to wally. That being said it’s hard not to. But I do think we as Beekeepers we all seek the same results. We want healthy strong bees that will sustain themselves with as little intervention from us as possible. But I do believe (and this is just my own thoughts) as long as we treat at the very first signs of trouble we are taking away the bees ability to have a chance to overcome these issues on there own. I think the diversity of the techniques we Beekeepers use to help our little friends out may well be the deciding factor on whether these guys are able to make it on there own. As mean as it sounds it may well be the best thing for the bees is to let the strong ones live and the week ones die. That is natures way. I think our human instinct is to try to help when all along we may be causing more harm than good. I think as far as my beekeeping goes I will try to only treat when I absolutely need to. I just don’t believe we are doing our bees justice by throwing the medications in the hive at the slightest sign of trouble. That’s why this forum and others like is such an awsome tool. Just like Jen said this is what I think works for me , I am just glad to be in company of those who share the same passion as I and want the same results no matter the path we chose to take to get there as long as we all get to where we want to be.
Riverbee I think your a very knowledgeable capable Beekeeper and I know I value your opinion and could learn a lot from you. So no you didn’t offend me at all. And thanks for all your help in the past and future.
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i don't mean to be harsh, but it is a fact. i have kept bees too long and when i hear this stuff or someone tells me they want to keep bees 'organically' in an 'unorganic' planet i say good luck, it ain't happening. let's be real. ?
i have very strong thoughts on this subject, so not meant to offend anyone. would any of us allow our critters to suffer? bees are insects, we can't take them to the vet. but we as BEEKEEPERS learn to recognize symptoms or see what may be and might be affecting them or ask someone more knowledgeable to help us and act accordingly. if we don't we lose them.
I know a local beek who is all about "organic" "live and let die", etc. I have come to believe his attitude is born out of a realization that he now has more hives than he can manage, so he simply does not manage them. He collects swarms and removes colonies as a sideline, so the number of hives he has increases every year, despite his lost colonies. At least he keeps his aggressive bees on other folks ranches where they are seldom disturbed.
I disagree his his plan. But I understand, too that it is tempting to go with the no treat attitude when you no longer have time to care for your bees; The change in attitude helps with the cognitive dissonance of wanting to be a beekeeper, yet not wanting to do the work.
He's not lazy. He works hard. And people are grateful when he removes the unwanted colonies from their homes.
He just spends all of his time collecting bees, and none of his time managing the pests.
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Many of us are hobby beekeepers and as mentioned in an earlier post, beekeeping can bear many expenses. If you are a commercial beek and don’t want to treat for mites, perhaps, you can bear the expense of losing a few hives. But having only a few hives, losing a hive or two can be a financial hit. Not to mention a huge disappointment. I am not saying a hobby beek couldn’t manage their hives to recoup the loss (splits, etc) but I feel when you only have a few hives, you need to treat for mites or be prepared for constantly struggling to build/maintain hives or buying new queens, NUCS, etc.
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Les, Agreed! I don't believe we are ever going to rid the world mites. But for me, I just cannot stand the thought of mites sucking the life out of our bees. Makes me shutter. And, I have had a couple of seasons when taking care of hubby post surgery where I couldn't get to my hives often enough. That resulted in deformed wing virus. So sad to see very sick bees who cannot take flight and slowly crawling around on the ground in circles, they crawl like airplanes missing one wing.
I think of it like my kids or pets, if it boils down to a beekeeper that cannot tend to the medical side of beekeeping, then maybe they have more hives than they can compassionately take care of.
Please note, that this is why I asked about Wayne's bees. Because if there is a strain of bees like Waynes or Russians that can manage to be mite free or close to it, then right there is a solution to those who don't want to go to the trouble or expense of treating.
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this is a great thread, and we all learn from one another!
green bee:
excellent post and i do appreciate where you are coming from. you said some great things in your post, we as beeks do seek the same results, and we all have a diversity of techniques! we all share the passion and want/desire the same results: " Just like Jen said this is what I think works for me , I am just glad to be in company of those who share the same passion as I and want the same results no matter the path we chose to take to get there as long as we all get to where we want to be. !"
very true!
"Riverbee you wil never offend me by saying how you truly feel, I think you and I are not as far apart on our thoughts as you think. The reason I chose not to treat is because I gave my word to wally. That being said it’s hard not to. But I do think we as Beekeepers we all seek the same results. We want healthy strong bees that will sustain themselves with as little intervention from us as possible. But I do believe (and this is just my own thoughts) as long as we treat at the very first signs of trouble we are taking away the bees ability to have a chance to overcome these issues on there own. I think the diversity of the techniques we Beekeepers use to help our little friends out may well be the deciding factor on whether these guys are able to make it on there own. As mean as it sounds it may well be the best thing for the bees is to let the strong ones live and the week ones die. That is natures way. I think our human instinct is to try to help when all along we may be causing more harm than good. I think as far as my beekeeping goes I will try to only treat when I absolutely need to. I just don’t believe we are doing our bees justice by throwing the medications in the hive at the slightest sign of trouble. That’s why this forum and others like is such an awsome tool. Just like Jen said this is what I think works for me , I am just glad to be in company of those who share the same passion as I and want the same results no matter the path we chose to take to get there as long as we all get to where we want to be.
Riverbee I think your a very knowledgeable capable Beekeeper and I know I value your opinion and could learn a lot from you. So no you didn’t offend me at all. And thanks for all your help in the past and future."
thanks for the compliment...... :-[ i too still learn green bee!
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cuz i don't understand the concept of keeping bees and letting them suffer and die out or abscond because of a religious or personal belief not to treat.
I agree 100% with Mrs River on this point.
I also double what TedH said.
I struggled MIGHTILY with my urge to treat the Wayne's bees.. at times I KNEW they were gonners because of the mite loads... and the next time I checked.. they had very few mites.... I was constantly astounded....
I lost all but one of my Wayne's queens last winter, as Ted said... they broke cluster during the nice sunny WARM days.. at one point in early February we had a WEEK of 45 plus degree days.. my queens were laying like MAD... not just my waynes queens, but ALL queens... The temps suddenly dropped to near zero for three days, and it was 45 degrees again, then back to 0, then back to 45 degrees... I found dead brood that bees stayed on, and I found three and four SMALL clusters where they tried to cluster up, and died because the clusters were too small... ALL of my hives had surplus honey and sugar cakes.. it wasnt food or mites that killed them, it was the terribly strange weather... In this, the Waynes queens didn't fare much better than any of my other hives. But I will testify that they DID manage their own mite loads.
When I am done running back and forth from Iowa to Maine I will be ordering queens and I will be attempting to raise new queens from my survivor queen.
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"I will be ordering queens and I will be attempting to raise new queens from my survivor queen."
You mean you will be ordering Wayne's queens? and you will be attempting to raise new queens from your Wayne's survivor queen?
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"I will be ordering queens and I will be attempting to raise new queens from my survivor queen."
You mean you will be ordering Wayne's queens? and you will be attempting to raise new queens from your Wayne's survivor queen?
:yes:
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Jen maybe l should have started a new thread for this but I thought it would go well with the subject at hand. I inspected my five hives yesterday and all was good with exceptions of one of the four Wayne’s hives. After opening this particular hive I noticed lots of honey and pollen and even a lot of bees and a small amount of capped brood. No eggs or larva. The bees temperament seemed normal and with exceptions of me not finding the queen, nothing looked out of place.
So this left me with what I consider somewhat of a problem. This hive is a three deep nuc. So I considered combining this hive with another nuc but didn’t see the need as both hives are strong enough I feel to get through the winter by themselves. My other option was to give it a week or so and go back in and look again for her or eggs but with the season coming to an end and queens getting scares , I decided on my third option to purchase a new queen (not a Wayne’s because none are available) and bank her pending another inspection to look for her again. I really hate the thought of losing one of my Wayne’s queens but at least I caught before winter set in. A lot if different things could be responsible for her lose but it sucks because she was good one day and gone the next so to speak.so what would you guys have done in this situation? Did I do the right thing?
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Hi Gbee :) I have been learning to be very patient with queens. I would keep checking for queen cells before introducing your new queen. Would be sad to waste a Wayne's, or any queen for that matter, that still might be in the hive. Queens can be soo shy.... let me think here.... so if there aren't any eggs there might not be any queen cells...
Could be..maybe.. that she stopped laying for a bit. I do remember somewhere that the girls tell her when to lay, and when to slow down, or when to stop all together for awhile.
Is there any room for her to lay in this hive? Maybe that's why you're not finding eggs? a thought
I am still continually removing frames from the brood boxes of all my hives because the bees have overloaded the cells with nectar/honey, nectar bound hives, and I have yet to feed this year... I've had to keep replenishing the hives with new wax frames so she can continue to lay.
So, I talked my way thru this Gbee :D I think I would recheck that hive and examine it very closely for eggs that were layed by a queen, on the bottom of the cells, and/or queen cups and cells for a week or two.
PS. This is why I like to mark my queens. I can find her right away.
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Talked to wally and he said the same thing Jen quote ( if you gonna keep bees you gonna have to learn to be patient) lol I know you both are right. My biggest problem here was over thinking the problem. My first instinct was to wait and I should have followed that. He also told me he would combine before he requeened this time of year. I guess I thought of the right things to do just chose the wrong thing to do. I guess we live and learn. Anyway I am gonna look again for the queen if she isn’t there I’ll combine the two nucs as wally suggested. Jen my queens are marked also. I mark my Wayne’s queens yellow.
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Oh that is funny! and I'm pleased. You're gonna get this bee thing Gbee, I Promise! I mean you're going to get to the point, after a handful of seasons, where you won't second guess yourself so much. But I have to admit, that in the spring, Every Spring! I forget stuff and I'm so glad that I have this forum. Because I often ask the same questions over every year :D :-[
Gbee "I guess I thought of the right things to do just chose the wrong thing to do."
Bees have a way of adjusting to all the things we as humans challenge them with. Every season I'm amazed at how they simply go about correcting all the scenario's that I thought were right, but there was maybe a better solution... and they just correct what you did and move on.
Such inspiration these little creatures are :bee:
UPDATE: Hey Gbee, guess what? later this afternoon, I inspected one of my nucs. I didn't find a single egg. But I did find young larvae. so that means that the queen hasn't been laying for about 5 maybe more days. So I thought, like you, that queen may be gone. But by golly there she was in the bottom brood box doing just fine. FYI ;) 8)
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"Talked to wally and he said the same thing Jen quote ( if you gonna keep bees you gonna have to learn to be patient) "
............ :D can't help it greenbee but so true, and i can hear him saying it! wally is right on!
" My biggest problem here was over thinking the problem. My first instinct was to wait and I should have followed that. He also told me he would combine before he requeened this time of year. I guess I thought of the right things to do just chose the wrong thing to do. I guess we live and learn. Anyway I am gonna look again for the queen if she isn’t there I’ll combine the two nucs as wally suggested."
we all overthink! and we learn by the experience of getting in there and doing, making decisions. whether right or wrong. it is how we learn and you have a great mentor to help you out! keep us posted! thanks green bee!
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For some reason I think over thinking problems is just human nature....If I could just make my wife understand that life would be much easier. :laugh:
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Green Bee, Do like i told my wife, I'm the King and this is my Castle :yes:. Jack
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Green Bee, Do like i told my wife, I'm the King and this is my Castle :yes:. Jack
I have to ask, how did that work out for ya? ;D
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Well i'm still Here :yes: Living on a farm i have a lot of outside chores to do with cattle, Bees, and repairs in the shop. So she's lucky i'm not in my castle that much. :no: Jack
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;)
Well i'm still Here :yes: Living on a farm i have a lot of outside chores to do with cattle, Bees, and repairs in the shop. So she's lucky i'm not in my castle that much. :no: Jack
. In other words your the king as long as you do your chores! :laugh: that sounds like me :yes:
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I’ve heard someone say if you think your king around here hand me that pan and I’ll crown you :laugh:
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:D :laugh: :D
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I’ve heard someone say if you think your king around here hand me that pan and I’ll crown you :laugh:
That would be my Sweet Wife's response. :)
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Green bee, check to see if the Queen is home, if not :no:, your the King and can do what ever YOU think is right. :yes: Now was that so hard. :laugh: :laugh: Jack