Author Topic: Oxalic Acid Vaporization  (Read 394 times)

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Offline Les

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Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« on: September 29, 2017, 04:32:05 PM »
When do you think is the best time of day to use my Oxalic Acid Vaporizer?  I tried early morning before the sun was up over the horizon but they were already bailing out of the hive and they were not happy! They were piling up on top of the damp rag making it diffucult to pull the vaporizer out.  I want the most bees to be in the hives when I treat.  Suggestions please.

Offline Perry

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 05:04:37 PM »
From what I have read, morning is the best time. Others say mid-day when a lot of the bees are out as the acid is still inside the hive when they return. The mites tend to want to stay in the brood rearing area and are not as plentiful on foragers anyways.
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Offline Les

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2017, 08:58:26 PM »
Thanks Perry!

Online Wandering Man

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 11:55:49 PM »
Practice before you do it.  Make sure you have a good battery and it is charged.  Don't lock your bees inside the hive when temps are in the upper nineties with high humidity.

Those are the lessons I learned from my first attempt a year ago.

In South Texas, it means you need to do the OAV in the morning, because you have to wait until it is really late to start the process.

In my case, I started when it was still hot and muggy.  My battery didn't work.  So after locking them inside their hive for 20 minutes and getting enough vapor to irritate them, I locked them in a second time and really pissed them off!  The bees ended up inside my hood with me and told me just how much they hated me.  They were grumpy for a week after that.
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Offline Les

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2017, 10:08:23 AM »
Wandering Man.....inside your veil?  OMG!  I do realize not to attempt this when it is hot.  Too cruel to lock them in between the heat and the heat of the vaporizer.  As far as battery goes, I pull our tractor up in front of the hives and hook up to the battery.  Fortunately my vaporizer has very long leads, so once the tractor is in position I don't have to move it.  Of course, today it's raining grrrrrr!

Online Wandering Man

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 10:55:07 AM »
Wandering Man.....inside your veil?  OMG!  I do realize not to attempt this when it is hot.  Too cruel to lock them in between the heat and the heat of the vaporizer.  As far as battery goes, I pull our tractor up in front of the hives and hook up to the battery.  Fortunately my vaporizer has very long leads, so once the tractor is in position I don't have to move it.  Of course, today it's raining grrrrrr!

Yeah, not one of my prouder moments in beekeeping more of the story here:

https://30yrsdog.blogspot.com/2017/02/post-65-how-to-make-angry-beehive-part-i.html

And then here:

https://30yrsdog.blogspot.com/2017/03/post-66-ow-to-make-bee-hive-angry-part-2.html

What you say about someone says a lot more about what kind of person you are, than about the other person.
How you treat someone you like reflects your taste.
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Offline Les

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 11:24:26 AM »
I was roaring as I read your blog. I have been pursued into the garage more times than I care.  I have also inadvertently carried them into the house.  Are you sure you need to vape for 7 minutes?  My instructions indicate vape for 3 minutes, unplug vape and wait 2 more minutes.  Then remove vaporizer but keep damp towwl on for another ten minutes.  Seven minutes is a long time to run that heat in there.

Online Wandering Man

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 11:45:12 AM »
I had timed it earlier, and it took 7 minutes to vaporize the OA.  That should have clued me in to the fact that my battery was not good.  But I ignored it.  Then I relied on memory of what I was supposed to do.  I think the heat cooked my my brain a bit.

I can proudly say that the next three times I've used the OAV have gone much more smoothly.

Except that now I've learned through the Honey Bee Health Coalition that I should only use OA during the winter.

Quote
Bees are clustered; no brood in northern locations with reduced brood rearing in southern locations; all or most Varroa
mites are phoretic (i.e., on adult worker bodies, as there is little to no developing brood) and both populations are in
decline because there is little or no reproduction occurring within the colony.
Highly Effective Options:
§§Oxalic acid (fumigation method)
§§Winter or broodless period
§§HopGuard® II
Notes:
§§ Best utilized when no brood.
§§ Varroa mortality over extended broodless period is high.
§§HopGuard II works best when little/no brood

This advice was born out when I used OAV three weeks in a row in August.  An early September sugar roll revealed I still had high levels of mites.  I treated them with MAQS a few weeks back, but haven't been back into the hives to check the results.

On Edit:  Here's a link to the HBHC:  https://honeybeehealthcoalition.org/

And here's a link to their latest guide for Varroa management:
https://honeybeehealthcoalition.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/HBHC-Guide_Varroa_Mgmt_6thEd_7April2017_c.pdf
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Offline CBT

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2017, 09:59:26 PM »
I understand that after a mite treatment with OA the mites don't die all at once. Not sure how long it takes to finish. Have not heard of a treatment failing. I have been at very low mite count then in a month been varroa bombed by someone's untreated bees. That's a wake up call for sure.

Online Wandering Man

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2017, 11:45:11 PM »
I understand that after a mite treatment with OA the mites don't die all at once. Not sure how long it takes to finish. Have not heard of a treatment failing. I have been at very low mite count then in a month been varroa bombed by someone's untreated bees. That's a wake up call for sure.

Maybe they were still dying off.  I didn't want to take a chance.  I did my first sugar roll on my other two hives, at the same time, and ended up doing MAQS on all three hives.

I hadn't realized that MAQS have an expiration date.  I need to find another hive to put them on before they expire.  I think this is a good time to "teach" my neighbor about the joys of rolling his bees in powdered sugar.
What you say about someone says a lot more about what kind of person you are, than about the other person.
How you treat someone you like reflects your taste.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 02:49:58 AM »
I have a Heilyser OA vaporizer. I do all my treatments between 9-10am. 2 1/2 minutes to empty tray. I use old kitchen towels, dry, to plug the entrance. After 2 1/2 minutes I very slowly pull the vap out of hive and leave towel on for 10 minutes. Done.

Now, my friend purchased an off brand vap from Mann Lake this spring. She had the right battery and it was charged. But her vap never did clear out all the mites. I don't think her vap got hot enough.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2017, 08:29:52 PM »
Different bees different mites maybe?
   I don't even block the entrance anymore. it annoys the bees. Even with he entrance left open i still have vapor exiting the top entrance and filling the hive. My mite death rate remained as high as it was when blocking the entrance and mite check a week after treating showed ZERO mites. Treating three times in the spring when it was comfortable to me dropped my mite levels to nothing and my bees did very well. Treated again in late august and did a mite count in late october...   No mites found...
   THis is using my cart... a gas engine and a 1 wire GM alternator and a deep cycle battery.. 2.5 minutes or two minutes and thirty seconds to vaporize the OA in the pan.. running two Vapirozors   The bees dont ever seem to get upset about being treated and continue on with their business as usual, even when the vapor is floating from both entrances.   I don't even wear my bee suit when treating...


   A friend her in Maine asked me to set him up for OA treatment...   I treated all of his hives with his new vaporizor just like I treat mine... I suggested he wear a bee suit, he didn't...  He got stung three times. I didn't get stung...
   Another friend asked me to go through his hives with him to see how they were preparing for winter. He got stunf twice... I didn't get stung... it is making me wonder...  why?

   My buddy Ted comes over and we go through hives... HE has bees TICKED OFF at him, and they leave me alone...   It is making me wonder... why?
   My Buddy Zweefer comes over and gets stung, and I don't?
   Maybe it is because I don't mind the occasional BVT injection and they all do?  Is it because they know I have a can of gas and a lighter?
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Offline Perry

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2017, 08:40:37 PM »
He got stung three times. I didn't get stung...
   Another friend asked me to go through his hives with him to see how they were preparing for winter. He got stunf twice... I didn't get stung... it is making me wonder...  why?

   My buddy Ted comes over and we go through hives... HE has bees TICKED OFF at him, and they leave me alone...   It is making me wonder... why?
   My Buddy Zweefer comes over and gets stung, and I don't?
   Maybe it is because I don't mind the occasional BVT injection and they all do?  Is it because they know I have a can of gas and a lighter?

Maybe you don't shower very often? (just thinking out loud here) :o :P
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 08:44:00 PM »
You been talking to my wife behind my back??    :eusa_think:
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Offline Jen

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 12:16:20 AM »
Scott, I think they like the scent of rum and coke on your breath  8)  ;) :D

And by the way, I don't suit up to do oa treatments either, bees are calm and happy
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2017, 05:44:35 AM »
I don't ware the suit neither, bit I also don't mind getting stung and bees I think can sense this and that stinging me is just senseless suicide on their part so they just don't bother.
My grandmother was the same way around around her bees. no protection and hardly ever stung.
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Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporization
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2017, 07:01:21 PM »
I think can sense this and that stinging me is just senseless suicide on their part


   LOL   That may very well be the case!
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