Author Topic: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?  (Read 3928 times)

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Offline 77jmartin

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Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« on: June 28, 2015, 07:36:32 pm »
My neighbor and I went into a hive Tuesday and found the bees had not pulled comb near the bottom of the frames due to (we think having screened bottom boards). We inverted the bottom two boxes in hopes the queen would move up and lay in this space. I got back into the hive today and found her in the bottom box with plenty of room to lay but I did not find eggs. I also looked in the top box and found the same thing. There was plenty of space for her to lay. I found capped brood and larva in various stages. I found two swarm cells with larva and might not should have but I tore them down. They were not capped. My question is will she stop laying right before she swarms?  I put a bottom board with a SHB tray under the hive today. Appreciate any input!!

Offline Riverrat

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 08:05:30 pm »
 Not sure here.  SBB shouldn't stop them from building comb at the bottom of the frame.  Where was the cells located? usually if they're going to swarm there will be several cells built along the bottom of the brood chamber.  Did you split up the brood chamber when you rotated boxes they may believe they are queenless if the queen is an older queen and her pheromones are weaker. Or  the queen may have been somehow injured and they are superceding her.  Another option is this time of year as the temps rise and the flow is over it is not uncommon for the queen to shut down laying.
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Offline 77jmartin

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 08:19:57 pm »
Cells were at the bottom of the frames but only two and on different frames. She is a 2015 spring queen from a nuc and was doing a fine job two to three weeks ago. Like I said, plenty of brood just no eggs.

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2015, 08:44:43 pm »
You may find they will tear them down, but I'm unsure. I was always under the impression that queens shut down a few days before they swarm, but this year I have found queen cells ready to hatch and when I'm going through the hive I still manage to find her and am surprised. I wonder if with the unsettled weather we are having they are delayed at times with their desire to hit the road? ???
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Offline Riverrat

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2015, 08:46:46 pm »
I'm leaning towards something injured the queen when you made the switch 5 days ago. No eggs now indicates she could have  quit laying about the time you made the switch. It will be interesting to hear what others say as they chime in
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2015, 11:29:30 pm »
You may find they will tear them down, but I'm unsure. I was always under the impression that queens shut down a few days before they swarm, but this year I have found queen cells ready to hatch and when I'm going through the hive I still manage to find her and am surprised. I wonder if with the unsettled weather we are having they are delayed at times with their desire to hit the road? ???
It is important to try to determine whether you are dealing with swarm cells or supersede cells. If the bees decide to supersede a queen cause they sense that she may be failing they can raise a replacement queen and the old queen can remain in the hive and will continue laying. The bees in the hive will not want to swarm with a failing queen and the new queen may not see her as a threat.  This is why at times more than one queen is found in a hive. It probably occurs more often than we think, as most of us stop looking for the queen once we see her, so if there was a second queen we see the 2nd one by accident.
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Offline 77jmartin

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 05:37:15 pm »
I went back into this hive yesterday and the queen is again laying like crazy.  I didn't find any additional queen cells.  Not sure what happened.

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 09:42:21 am »
When a hive gets into the swarming mode a lot of times the bees will put the Queen on a diet to get her ready to fly.
When on that diet the Queen will drastically slow down on her laying eggs.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2015, 11:51:08 pm »
"My neighbor and I went into a hive Tuesday and found the bees had not pulled comb near the bottom of the frames due to (we think having screened bottom boards)."

might be, i don't use sbb's but have read about a number of anomaly's using sbb's.

"We inverted the bottom two boxes in hopes the queen would move up and lay in this space. I got back into the hive today and found her in the bottom box with plenty of room to lay but I did not find eggs. I also looked in the top box and found the same thing. There was plenty of space for her to lay. I found capped brood and larva in various stages. I found two swarm cells with larva and might not should have but I tore them down. They were not capped. My question is will she stop laying right before she swarms? "

"Cells were at the bottom of the frames but only two and on different frames. She is a 2015 spring queen from a nuc and was doing a fine job two to three weeks ago. Like I said, plenty of brood just no eggs. "

first, just my HO, a 2015 spring queen is not going to be in swarm mode, worry about that next year.  and yes, queens stop laying well before swarming.
second you reversed the boxes to find the queen had moved back down with plenty of space to lay in either box........for myself i think i would have removed the sbbs and left the boxes in place instead of reversing. two cells?  i would have left them alone, but that's just me.

no eggs? but larvae? what's your weather been?

"I went back into this hive yesterday and the queen is again laying like crazy.  I didn't find any additional queen cells.  Not sure what happened."

could be one or a combination of a number of things; a young queen, weather, beekeeper manipulation, etc.  think i would just leave them alone for a couple weeks then check back on what's going on? 
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Offline Yankee11

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Re: Do Queens stop laying before swarming?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 01:01:40 am »
I am 77jmartins neighbor he is talking about.

There is a issue that I have discovered time and time again with open screened bottom boards. The bees will not pull the comb much past half way down the frames. They will not pull down by the open bottom. We have also discovered that the bees don't really like to be in the bottom box. Both of these hives were packed in the upper box and both bottom deeps where practically empty. A situation I have found over and over again. So we reversed the boxes because ALL the brood was in the upper deep and lower deep was empty. He has now switched to solid bottom boards. We found swarm cells cause the bees were essentially living in a single deep.

I have a couple of screened bottoms left out there and look just like 77's. Top brood boxes full and lower brood boxes are mostly empty. Solid bottom board hives have bees and brood in both boxes.

Remember the upper entrances I was putting between the brood boxes and supers.
I discovered that the bees were not pulling comb all the way to the front of the super frames that were against the opening of these shims. They pulled up to about 4 inches from the front of the frames. All 10 across the front. The frames were filled and capped a but they never pulled the fronts, This told me that they done like being by the opening.


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