Author Topic: Queen excluder (Read 5272 times)

Apis63 · « **on:** April 15, 2016, 11:52:56 am »

Hey all! Spring is finally here in northern Wisconsin and I am anxiously awaiting my bees (which are coming from Hansen's Honey Farm in Rhinelander, if anyone knows where that is)! My partner, Rick, has worked really hard to make three beautiful hive set-ups for me. They are painted and ready to go. Electric fence is up and I know that it works because one of my hens walked into it last evening (she's fine, but I'm sure she'll rebel by not giving me an egg today)!
Just wondering if you have any advice for me on what more I should do before the bees come? I have a question about queen excluders. Should I put an excluder in my hive right away or do I wait to see how things progress? At what point do I make that call? I appreciate any advice you can share!
-Pam

iddee · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2016, 02:38:58 pm »

Put the excluder away until your third year.Decide in April 2018 if and how you want to use it.

Perry · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2016, 02:43:40 pm »

Do not, I repeat do not, place an excluder on your hive until there is drawn comb above your brood chamber. Many new folks install their bees and once they have built up enough to occupy a double brood box, they will add the third box (honey super), using a queen excluder below the honey super in an attempt to prevent the queen from laying up there. Bees will not go through a queen excluder if there is nothing but frames with foundation above it. Let the bees go up unobstructed until there is drawn comb up there and then use the excluder if that is your intention.

Dunkel · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2016, 07:44:21 pm »

I agree with the above statements. Sometimes bees don't want to move up to the next box, especially with just foundation. It helps if there is drawn comb. And it really helps if some comb they have been working can be put in it to help bait them up. This is one place that same size boxes really come in handy. Sometimes they rather swarm than move up to the next box. I've had this happen also almost twenty percent of the time. Makes it hard on a new beekeeper starting out. An excluder just increases the issue. Don't throw them out though they have there uses.

These guys are giving you some great advice. They truly want you to succeed, I sometimes have to read and reread their advice to really understand the nuts and bolts behind what they offer.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2016, 08:50:39 pm »

Do you have your hives on stands? Can you work them from the back? Do you have feeders to put on them when you hive them? Lots of questions I could ask... Instead... This is how I do it!
http://www.outyard.net/getting-started.html

There are so many opinions and methods that studying yourself into confusion is possible. The good folks here wont steer you wrong!

apisbees · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2016, 11:52:52 pm »

Here is a link to their Package bee website. They do not list nucs for sale so i will surmise that you are starting off with packages. They appear to be package resellers with the packages coming from C.F. Koehnen, Freisen Apairies, Heikam's Honey Bees and Steve Park Apairies in Northern California. Did you order 2 or 3 lb packages?

http://www.hansenhoneyfarm.com/bees.html

Zweefer · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2016, 01:12:25 am »

What they all said. I would also tell you to play with your smoker. Learn how to light it so it stays smoking for 30+ min.

Zweefer · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2016, 01:21:04 am »

One more thing as I think on it. Decide before the bees come how you plan to keep them. What I mean by that is what is your plan for feeding, swarming (probably not as important year one), and most importantly mite control. Having a plan set in mind ahead of time can save a ton of stress and gnashing of teeth when you open the hive up and spot an irregularity

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #8 on:** April 16, 2016, 11:29:59 am »

I would also suggest using bees wax foundation to start with, the bees will take to it faster than that stinky plastic foundation. After you have two deeps drawn and full of bees and brood, like others have said put a super with bees wax foundation on top without the excluder, if you put a super with plastic foundation on top, i have found that my bees think it's an excluder and won't work it, but if you live way up north and your bees brains have been froze numerous times they are more apt to work plastic foundation. Of course this is just my opinion and as you can see a bees wax beekeeper (i don;t have any stock in a bees wax co.) but do make candles from it, something that is more difficult when using plastic foundation

Welcome to the world of beekeeping from a poor old southern boy.

Jack
PS. i have found many times that plastic foundation can be used as a excluder.

Apis63 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2016, 09:22:55 pm »

Thank you all for your advice and wisdom! I feel a little more confident every time you all help me. Hey Laxybkpr, I love the inner covers you made. What are the dimensions? Rick and I both watched your first video on getting started ( twice actually)! So informative and helpful. I definitely like your philosophy! Looking forward to exploring your website more. Thanks, again, everyone!

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2016, 09:33:51 pm »

16 1/4 by 19 7/8 the same size as the hive boxes. Theres a post about them in the do it yourself section here on the forum. I am even using them on the pallet hives they are so handy.

Zweefer · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2016, 09:57:24 pm »

Told you his site was a great one!

Apis63 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2016, 10:43:17 pm »

Yes you did, Todd! Thanks for suggesting the sight--it has been invaluable. I am the type of person who needs to read things two or three times, but give me a video and I'm good to go! As a complete and total greenhorn, I really appreciate the videos. Thanks, Lazybkpr for sharing your knowledge with us!

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #13 on:** April 17, 2016, 05:00:04 pm »

Thanks, Lazybkpr for sharing your knowledge with us!

Thats what were all here for! To help when we can!

Wandering Man · « **Reply #14 on:** April 17, 2016, 06:46:23 pm »

What about putting the excluder under the brood box for a week? Would that help to ensure the new bees don't abscond?

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #15 on:** April 17, 2016, 08:39:07 pm »

I will assume you mean from a package or swarm? It is cheap insurance, they wont run away without their queen, but I will say that of all the swarms/packages/splits/cut outs etc I have done, less than one in twenty has ever vacated the premises. Adding a frame of brood from another hive will reduce that number to 1 in 100.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #16 on:** April 18, 2016, 10:04:01 am »

I am a little late to this discussion. I would have the following ready:
1. Have all equipment assembled, painted and set up in the location where the colony will be housed.
2. Just before getting your bees, have a sugar syrup mixture made and ready to install. Use equal parts sugar and water. Replace as needed until the bees will no longer take it.
3. Queen excluders are in the future. The equipment you will need immediately is a bottom board, one brood box, frames ( with or without foundation, your choice but I would use foundation), inner cover and lid. If you live in a windy location you will also need a brick or rock for the top. You will also need a feeder of some type. There are many choices.
4. I assume you have a smoker, bee brush or wild bird feathers or such and at least a veil. Hive tool is a must.

I don't smoke when installing a package. Its not necessary and I don't want them to lose the queen's pheromone. The actual installation process is another subject.
Installing a queen excluder is another topic as well. First you need to establish the colony and get them to fill out the frames in the first brood box. When 7 out of 10 frames have drawn foundation, add another brood box with 10 frames in it as well. After 7 of 10 frames have drawn foundation then you can think about the adding honey supers. That is when you use the queen excluder. Your bees may never get that far the first year. It depends on circumstances.
I never have trouble with the bees drawing out the foundation in the honey supers. They won't do it unless there is a nectar flow on. I always use a queen excluder. I never have brood in my honey supers. I never worry where the queen is when pulling honey supers. I have beautiful drawn comb in my honey supers that I use year after year. My bees fill them with honey lickety split!

One girl to another...I hope this helps. Maybe its more info than you asked for. Good luck!

Apis63 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 18, 2016, 09:40:10 pm »

Thank you SO much for the great advice, Bakersdozen! I think I am ready--I could check off all of the things on your list,except for the sugar syrup,which I will prep this weekend. I am picking the bees up next Tuesday. I feel like an expectant mother! Excited, nervous, and second guessing everything. Oh well, I'll just jump in and do my best! I'm sure I will have many more questions, so don't go too far! Thanks, again!

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #18 on:** April 18, 2016, 11:13:20 pm »

It's exciting, isn't it? Installing a package of bees is so fun. I like to have everything ready to go when installing a package. I usually forget something. You don't know how long those bees have been in that package. They may be out of sugar syrup in that can. I have seen this more than once. The queen and the bees are in a stressful situation. I don't like to add to the stress.

I forgot to mention an entrance reducer will be needed after you install. They will be vulnerable to robbing by feral colonies. The entrance reducer will help the small group of bees guard their entrance.

apisbees · « **Reply #19 on:** April 18, 2016, 11:52:11 pm »

Not all package producers fill the cans to their maximum capacity.

tecumseh · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2016, 06:50:59 am »

you will need to feed a package of bees.... if you have no feeding device you can use the feeder can that comes with the package or a freezer baggie (and an empty shell) can also be used. starting via a package is a bit like magic in that you personally witness a small group of bees go from almost nothing to a box of bees very quickly. we have a young lady from Wisconsin at the Texas A&M Bee Lab that my wife and I have unofficially adopted. We may well visit with her folks in Wisconsin late in the summer < my current bucket list is to work bees in as many places as possible.

Zweefer · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2016, 07:41:24 am »

Good luck today! Post photos if you can

Les · « **Reply #22 on:** April 20, 2016, 12:03:05 pm »

Last year was our first year and we received two packages of bees. My first suggestion is if you are getting packaged bees put some sugar syrup in a spray bottle and mist them a bit with the sugar syrup. As you are pulling the queen out, this will keep them occupied and give them hydration and food. Don't smoke them. 2. Don't panic and freak out as you start emptying the package bees into the hive. It is very intimidating and scary to have them buzzing all around you and all that buzzing noise. Just make sure you are fully suited up. If you don't have a full bee suit, make sure you have on heavier jeans. My first sting was received on the first day, through a pair of lightweight jeans. Also wear boots and tape them up at the top. A sting to the Achilles hurts like the devil! As you get more comfortable in the process and take a few stings, you will start to shed gear but in the beginning don't attempt to be fearless. 3. If you haven't already, find a bee group and a mentor.....they are lifesavers. You may think you have read everything you can get your hands on, watched every video on youtube but having other beeks to hash things out with is invaluable. You already found this site and everyone here has the patience of saints. They will answer all the questions (even though they probably have been asked a hundred times already). Lastly, keep a record book and make sure you note your observations when you open the hive. It will become an invaluable tool.
I wish you all the best, you will be hooked once you start being a caretaker for these fascinating creatures.

brooksbeefarm · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2016, 12:18:32 pm »

Like Les said, spray the sugar water on the wire cage, if you brush it on you can injure the bees tongues or legs with the brush. Jack