Author Topic: mite treatment & a swarm (Read 4536 times)

rober · « **on:** August 26, 2017, 12:41:38 pm »

put apiguard on 3 hives last Tuesday. yesterday one swarmed ( not absconded ). coincidence? they were 50' up in s tree so I did not retrieve them.

Perry · « **Reply #1 on:** August 26, 2017, 12:55:48 pm »

Are there developed queen cells inside? If there are, they had made the decision to go before the treatment began.

rober · « **Reply #2 on:** August 26, 2017, 04:34:36 pm »

I let them settle down. i'll check for swarm cells in the morning. one of the drawbacks of out-yards. I forgot about one of the hives needing a 2nd deep.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2017, 06:58:59 pm »

Quote from: Perry on August 26, 2017, 12:55:48 pm

Are there developed queen cells inside? If there are, they had made the decision to go before the treatment began.

I would be curious to know about any queen cells inside too.
There isn't a nectar flow going on now in our part of the world, rober. I thought a nectar flow was an important part of the swarm scenario.

riverbee · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2017, 11:36:36 pm »

"I forgot about one of the hives needing a 2nd deep."

rober far as you can tell was this the one that swarmed?

rober · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2017, 09:10:38 pm »

well it wasn't a swarm. they absconded. there was only a handful of bees left in the hive when I checked them today. they were still in the same tree. the hive in the single deep was wall to wall brood. I did give them a 2nd deep. if apiguard was the cause this is the 1st time it happened to one of my hives. has anyone had this happen to them when using apiguard??

riverbee · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2017, 10:35:20 pm »

rober, i have had this happen using apilife var. apilife var just drives the bees out the front door and then some. if it was a single deep, the apiguard may have driven them out? not sure, just guessing.

i do use apiguard when need be. i like this stuff better than apilife var, but have always used it per directions with two deeps. may drive them out the front door a little but not like apilife var and can't say i have had bees abscond in a two deep using apiguard.

rober · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2017, 02:33:22 am »

it was a double deep that flew the coop. I usually test & only treat hives with high mite counts. most recommend putting Apiguard between the brood boxes. I only put it on top. I also use minimal doses. I hate using any of the mite treatments but hate the winter losses if I don't use them even more. I rarely use a second dose. I do wonder if I could be contributing to the development of resistant mites by doing this. the 1st time I treated for mites I used mite-away strips & lost 1/2 of my queens. I understand they have since changed the mite-away formula but i'm still leery of it. I have a cooker but as of yet have not tried oxyilic acid yet but O.A. doesn't kill the mites in the brood. I dabbled in beekeeping in the 70's-before varrora & before hive beetles. twas a lot simpler back then.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2017, 05:55:17 am »

rober, it is my understanding that if you have a colony with a heavy mite load in one yard you should treat the entire yard. You are creating a "mite bomb" that will spread to your other colonies in that yard.
The directions from the manufacturer of Mite Away Quick Strips say to apply when the temperatures are between 50-85 degrees. http://nodglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/US-M-PL-003.pdf Excessive temperatures could result in queen loss.
I noticed that Dadant's recommendations are different. They show a temperature range of 50-95 degrees.
https://www.dadant.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/MiteAwayinstructionsDadant2.pdf Maybe they are outdated with the new version of MAQS?
Last year my experience was just the opposite of yours. I did one treatment with oxalic acid. It was too little, too late for one colony. That colony absconded and then I put apiguard treatments on all my hives. The rest of the hives came through just fine.

rober · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2017, 08:25:48 am »

this year I am treating all of my hives. I've read a lot about using this & I wonder if it would be less disruptive if used in slightly cooler conditions, say mid 70's to low 80's. it's in the mid to high 80's here these days. the possible drawback might be that i'd have to wait to apply it until late September & that could leave the hive with a smaller population going into winter.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #10 on:** August 28, 2017, 07:33:28 pm »

In the case of a heavy mite load, I would do treatments in early Sept. The longer you wait, the mite to bee ratio increases.

rober · « **Reply #11 on:** August 28, 2017, 08:13:18 pm »

that's only a week away. I need to build some more spacer rims. if I used candy boards for spacers would the apiguard residue be a problem when I used them for candy later? they'd have a couple of months to air out.

apisbees · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2017, 02:18:35 am »

It will not cause any more problem than the residue that it will leave behind on the frames, It doesn't seam to effect the bees from raising brood and storing honey in the combs.
Ideally in areas where we get a mid October to end of February winter. It would be nice to treat in the middle of August so the bees that emerge from the 1st part of September and latter, are as free as possible from mites and the effects they have on the colony. But the weather does not always cooperates. It is a trade off between treating early, and waiting till it is cool enough that you are not causing more damage to the brood, bees, and queen, due to it being to warm.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2017, 05:52:52 am »

apis makes a great point. We want healthy bees going into winter. Perhaps a plan of treating now with apiguard to knock down the mite loads. Later, when there is less brood, do another mite test. If needed follow up with oxalic acid?

rober · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2017, 09:13:33 am »

has anyone treated for mites & NOT closed off screened bottom boards? I know the treatment would be compromised but it would be less traumatic to the hive.

apisbees · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2017, 10:13:17 am »

There would be no way of controlling the treatment. Air flow and wind could render the treatment in effective.

CBT · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2017, 08:52:06 pm »

It's easy to use a rag to close off entrance while treating.

apisbees · « **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2017, 03:16:42 am »

Rober was asking about treating with the screened bottom board open to help avoid to much heat causing the chemical to be harmful to the bees.

CBT · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2017, 07:03:21 am »

Thanks, for the clarity.

neillsayers · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2017, 07:55:40 am »

Rober,

FWIW, in 2015, I administered a thymol treatment to a strong hive I had in late September. Within and hour about 2/3s of the hive and the queen swarmed out, I never caught them. They had capped queen cells ready to go. It was so late in the season I ended up combining the rest the bees with another hive.
It was just coincidence. After that, I won't give any treatment without a full inspection.

Lburou · « **Reply #20 on:** August 30, 2017, 09:56:24 am »

Quote from: neillsayers on August 30, 2017, 07:55:40 am

...I administered a thymol treatment...

Neil, how do you administer a thymol treatment?

neillsayers · « **Reply #21 on:** August 30, 2017, 05:35:44 pm »

Lee,

I was actually trying a homemade thyme essential oil on paper towel treatment. I haven't used it since. It worked well on my other colonies but I find OAV is a lot less disruptive and I had very good results with it.

Lburou · « **Reply #22 on:** August 30, 2017, 09:30:50 pm »

Quote from: neillsayers on August 30, 2017, 05:35:44 pm

Lee,

I was actually trying a homemade thyme essential oil on paper towel treatment. I haven't used it since. It worked well on my other colonies but I find OAV is a lot less disruptive and I had very good results with it.

I see.