Author Topic: My First Abscond! (Read 2107 times)

Jen · « **on:** October 27, 2018, 11:42:15 pm »

Well I THINK it's an abscond. In my 10 years as a beekeeper I have never lifted a lid and heard no sound at all, no bees on the top of the frames or the bottom of the lid. It was eerie! and baffling, especially this time of year when the nights are down to 35.

Due to the excessive smoke this year, we here in Calif have been feeding for most of the season. Plus, some of us have been feeding summer pollen patties to encourage the queen to lay to bulk up the winter bees, it's been a slow process.

I'm on my third OA treatment. The mites were plentiful but not bad. So the bees are clean.

I did the inspection yesterday. This abscond happened about 2 days ago. In the middle brood box I found 2 day old eggs and capped brood. And I found one frame that looks like the caps of the cells had been torn open. And many of the capped cells were scratched on the surface. No queen found.

riverbee · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2018, 12:04:29 am »

jen, still looking at your pix and thinking on your post, and thanks for posting these....

i have one question right now, pondering this, the last photograph you posted appears to be a honey frame? if so, the cells appear 'chewed' or as you said 'torn open', sort of ragged, like what we see when robbing occurs. was this frame full of honey/syrup?

not saying this happened. maybe robbed after they absconded.

were there any honey frames left at all for them to overwinter on?

what was this hive like one month ago and two weeks ago?

Wandering Man · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2018, 12:57:01 am »

All they left was the brood and a single cell of pollen?

How sad.

Jen · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2018, 01:16:17 am »

1. was this frame full of honey/syrup?
Nope, virtually none of my super frames are full of honey this year. I reduced the pic to just where the chewing is, the rest of the frame has decent wax. Out of a three stack hive, this was the only frame with chewing/tearing

2. were there any honey frames left at all for them to overwinter on?
Yes, but none of the frames are 'full' of honey. I would say that maybe a third of the super is full of honey.

3. what was this hive like one month ago and two weeks ago?
One month ago, hive was bustling, healthy laying queen, eggs, larvae. But not chauk full of bees like early summer, but plenty to be a productive hive and make it thru winter.

Not much nectar this very smokey winter. The bees worked real hard to just get food to eat daily. The skies are clear now, but no nectar out there. So I understand the robbing thing this year. But in this three stack hive only one frame had this torn up comb, the rest of the wax in the hive was fine.

Jen · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2018, 01:22:26 am »

Wman, they left 4 frames of capped brood with shotty pattern, and 3 frames with eggs of which one of those frames was full of two day old eggs. No larvae.

rober · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2018, 08:05:25 am »

starting 3 years ago I started getting swarm calls in September & early October. It was puzzling until I had a hive abscond for no apparent reason. it was one of my strongest hives. they left 5 near full frames of brood & 50# of honey & pollen. i gave the brood & honey to 2 weaker hives. I checked some hives 3 days ago & found another empty hive. so far I've had 3. I'm thinking the late swarm calls are hives that absconded. these hives were not overrun with beetles & any signs of moths were minimal & they probably were just taking advantage of the vacated hives. in talking to other beekeepers this is occurring more often. the sad part is that these hives will not have enough time to build up for winter & will likely perish. like we do not have enough to deal with eh?

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2018, 11:01:30 am »

Jen, Good pictures! This is a great learning opportunity for us.
In the 6th picture I see a varroa on one of the semi emerged larvae.
Picture 8 looks like signs of American Foulbrood.

This not so great picture is from a presentation I attended this weekend.
Picture 7 has the appearance of Chalkbrood. Here is another picture I took.

Picture 7 also has lots of eggs and 1st and 2nd instar larvae. I am not sure if I am seeing multiple eggs or single eggs with jelly present. Maybe someone can see better than me. So, it doesn't look like queen failure.

Picture 9 looks like robbing took place at some point in the demise of this colony.

There could have been several different issues that had an affect on this colony.

Rober, answering swarm calls this late in the year means doing varroa treatments (OA dribble method) and feed, feed, feed. I don't know if I would combine the swarm bees with an existing treated colony.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2018, 11:47:03 am »

I forgot to post this nice video on detecting AFB.

Riverrat · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2018, 11:48:21 am »

Looks like a week hive that got robbed out IMHO

Mikey N.C. · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2018, 01:24:59 pm »

Jen, sorry for loss.
I was going to ask same thing did you do toothpick rope test?

Jen · « **Reply #10 on:** October 28, 2018, 01:40:40 pm »

Holy Schmoly! I'll be back in a few, I'll check the cells. Two years into my beekeeping I purchased a hive from a dirty apiary yard. I do know the smell and the brown snot.

Jen · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2018, 10:07:02 pm »

Update, I did the snot test, and it's not twisty and ropey. but the vid that Baker posted said that at certain stages the snot may not be ropey. I called our County Ag guy, and he'll be looking at the pics as soon as he can. Looks like AFB to me

:'(

Here are the same pics but closer up, and there is some snot pics for you too

tedh · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2018, 09:22:04 am »

I see what may be "sunken" cappings which could indicate foul brood. Or so I hear. Ted

Riverrat · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2018, 09:27:26 am »

Whats your temps been out that way?

Jen · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2018, 11:12:40 am »

Rrat, 60-70 degrees days, 35 ave nights

Riverrat · « **Reply #15 on:** October 29, 2018, 03:05:39 pm »

Quote from: Jen on October 29, 2018, 11:12:40 am

Rrat, 60-70 degrees days, 35 ave nights

If the hive absconded and left behind brood there will be no way for the capped brood to survive without bees to maintain the temps. Looking at the pics and Qtip Im wondering if it is not brood that has died and in late stages of rotting

neillsayers · « **Reply #16 on:** October 29, 2018, 03:07:57 pm »

Jen,

Did you detect a fishy or chicken litter-like odor from the sample you took?

Jen · « **Reply #17 on:** October 29, 2018, 04:31:26 pm »

Rrat, that's what I'm hoping... Really Really Hoping

Niel, there is an odor, not a healthy wax smell, more deep dark odor.

neillsayers · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2018, 11:05:38 pm »

Jen,
I have no experience with it yet but I have been told the slurry from the dead larva will have a very strong foul odor, hence the name. If it turns out to be EFB, antibiotic treatment will cure it. Unfortunately, AFB is really bad and requires destruction of the bees and woodenware by fire. Regs are different in every state but that is the law in Arkansas. I hope it turns out to not be a big deal after all.

Wandering Man · « **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2018, 08:51:41 am »

Jen,

Did you ever get a final diagnosis for this hive?