time to stop feeding, or was it me?

[CpnObvious]

Tuesday night I added a second deep to hive one. They had been going through syrup rather quickly the precious few days. When I added the second deep I added more syrup to the top feeder. They haven't touched it since. Should I remove the feeder when I do my inspections today? When I say "haven't touched", I mean I haven't seen a single bee up there since.

[pistolpete]

The mood may strike them yet.  I'd say keep the feed on there until they have at least drawn out a few frames in the top deep.   It takes a lot of energy to make wax.   I give up on feeding if they don't touch it for two weeks.  If there is a good flow on they prefer that to syrup.

[riverbee]

capn, the bees don't utilize space until they need it.  you just installed these bees on May 25 from packages?  i am wondering if it was too soon for a 2nd deep?  are all the frames drawn in deep 1 and were the bees close to running out of room?  is your 2nd deep all foundation?

if your 2nd deep is foundation, the syrup will help to get them to draw it out.

[Slowmodem]

If your second deep is all foundation, you can pull some of the frames from the bottom deep into the top deep, and move the foundation frames you pulled down into the bottom deep.  That will encourage them to move into the top deep (they won't abandon brood).

Also, if you have any honey b healthy, you could put a little into your syrup to encourage feeding.

I put a jar of syrup into the swarm I captured the other day, and they've not touched it.  But it may be because of the flow.  But it's there if they want it.

[Perry]

If your second deep is all foundation, you can pull some of the frames from the bottom deep into the top deep, and move the foundation frames you pulled down into the bottom deep.  That will encourage them to move into the top deep (they won't abandon brood).

Baiting the second deep would be a good idea. 

[CpnObvious]

After today's inspection, I removed the second deep I put on the first hive.  It seemed they had been progressing exceptionally fast... up until this past week.  I figured I would need to add a second deep around week 4 or 5.  I was dumbfounded that it seemed they needed it this early.  Well, they don't.   I jumped the gun.

I'll be updating my Journey posting shortly.  I have questions, if you can believe that!

[Bakersdozen]

I follow the Rule of 7.  When 7 frames have been drawn out, then I add the 2nd brood box.  Same works for honey supers.

[Jen]

Baker- "I follow the Rule of 7.  When 7 frames have been drawn out, then I add the 2nd brood box.  Same works for honey supers. 

    Funny, I was just thinking "If I had a simple rule to follow..."  Perfect! Thanks Baker 

[mamapoppybee]

Baker are you running an 8 frame or a ten frame? This will give us newbies a better idea of bee space for our hive types.

[Marion]

I have a question about feeding. I put a second deep onto my hive which I bought in June about a month ago because the first deep was full and needed the space. I switched two frames from the bottom near outer and put them in the middle of the top deep and two new foundation frames in the bottom deep. I just made a hive inspection. They are making a lot of wax in the top deep on two new foundation frames. still about 4or 5 with nothing on them. should I be feeding them sugar water? We only have new foundation because this is our first hive.

[Perry]

I would think there is no need to feed any longer. Here in NS there is a good flow on right now.

[Marion]

I have not fed them yet. They have been bringing in pollen regularly since I got them. Some articles I have read suggest feeding them to give them energy to make wax. I would prefer they forage for their own food until fall. I think there is still a lot of food out there for them.

[Slowmodem]

When a hive is building (like a swarm I caught recently), I feed them.  If they want it, they'll take it, and if they don't, they won't.  When they're drawing comb, they need a lot of help.

Just my $0.02.   

[riverbee]

"I have a question about feeding. I put a second deep onto my hive which I bought in June about a month ago because the first deep was full and needed the space. I switched two frames from the bottom near outer and put them in the middle of the top deep and two new foundation frames in the bottom deep. I just made a hive inspection. They are making a lot of wax in the top deep on two new foundation frames. still about 4or 5 with nothing on them. should I be feeding them sugar water? We only have new foundation because this is our first hive..........I have not fed them yet. They have been bringing in pollen regularly since I got them. Some articles I have read suggest feeding them to give them energy to make wax. I would prefer they forage for their own food until fall. I think there is still a lot of food out there for them."

what slow said, feed, feed feed until that foundation is drawn.  it is july , august coming soon, fall months and winter......that new hive has a long ways to go to get that foundation drawn and filled to overwinter.  pollen is not sufficient means for the bees to draw comb or sustain them, they need both, nectar and pollen, even if the nectar is syrup. they need nectar/syrup and lots of young bees to draw comb. you prefer that they forage for their own until fall......well they do, but if there is nothing or little for them to forage on? they will starve or not be a strong colony going into winter months and then starve later.  if you think that foraging on their own is going to get them there, it might not.  flows are inconsistent.  you want to be sure they draw the comb and fill it, especially this time of the year. my suggestion and two cents is to feed.....

[LazyBkpr]

I am going to agree with both Perry and SlowModem..

   If you have a decent flow, which you "should" right now...   (No guarantees) you may not need to feed as Perry said, but Like SLow said..  if they need it they have it..
   I was having issues with my bees backfilling the brood nest with syrup. Turns out I was feeding too fast..   Iddee suggested I use less holes in the feed lids. I gave it a try, and WOW it made a difference..  They take the syrup a lot slower, and build comb faster..
   So, if you feed, restrict it a little and keep an eye on where they are storing.  Feeding fast is for the fall when you WANT them to store it. Feeding slow is for when you want to make sure they have what they NEED.

[riverbee]

give them some feed, don't depend on any flow for them to draw foundation this time of year.  how many frames of foundation are undrawn marion?

[Marion]

4 frames in the second deep are not drawn.

[riverbee]

okay, what position are the undrawn frames in? 

[Marion]

Hi Riverbee, the unworked frames are 3 on one side and 1 on the other. In the middle I have 2 frames I pulled up from the outside edges of the lower deep. There is capped brood on them and honey around the edges. On each side of these middle 2 are two new frames that have been covered on both sides with wax. They do not look capped.

I took your advice and put a pint of 1:1 sugar water inside of an empty super. This actually provided more ventilation and a second door for the bees. Before the top cover blocked it.

I have included a picture of the hive. I think everything is going well. I have recently read that the two bottom supers need to be full for the winter and probably most of a super for winter survivial. 

[riverbee]

marion, i have learned from experience that it is always best to feed a new colony of bees light syrup when starting them on foundation, i don't pull the feed until all the frames are drawn, and as i said, i don't rely on nectar flows. feeding syrup will help them in many ways, but you also need to manage this. 

randy oliiver has some good advice on feeding syrup to bees:
Fat Bees-Part 3 Scientific Beekeeping
scroll down past the protein feeding and start reading where he writes:
"I’ll be happy to discuss the science and biology of feeding syrup, and tips for the hobbyist and sideline beekeeper. Other than specialty applications, there are three main reasons for feeding:"

also, at the very bottom of the article he discusses methods of feeding and mentions the 'trickle feed' as iddee and scott have mentioned doing.
"For the hobbyist, I suggest feeding with inverted quart to gallon jars (a quart a day is plenty) with a few holes punched in the center of the lid (hole size is not critical, but by using only a few small holes you help to regulate the feeding rate). Then make a simple dedicated feeder lid out of scrap wood, with a hole in the center smaller than your feeder jar lid (but larger than your hole pattern). Set your nice hive cover to the side, and temporarily use the board with the hole through it while you’re feeding. The only time that a hobbyist may have to feed when he/she is starting a colony on foundation."

in another article Fat Bees-Part 2, and i will just quote him, i believe this to be true about drawing foundation and also giving them a boost, or a little help with efforts spent to draw the comb:

"First, a hobby beekeeper may never need to feed a colony. The only time that many hobby beekeepers will ever need to feed is when they are helping the bees draw out the combs of foundation in the broodnest for the first time".............."Sugar syrup can be an important tool in bee management, but don’t expect it to do more than it can. That said, sugar syrup can give a lot of bang for the buck. It’s cheaper than honey, and stimulative feeding of light syrup not only changes their behavior, but can save the bees an incredible amount of effort in foraging for nectar, thus allowing them to focus their energies on other tasks—such as comb building, pollen foraging, or keeping the cluster warm."