Author Topic: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?  (Read 3294 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rober

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Thanked: 71 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« on: March 21, 2019, 03:52:16 pm »
2 outyards were too wet to get to until now. i'm seeing 1-3 frames of brood in those hives. too late to drizzle???

Offline Bakersdozen

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4511
  • Thanked: 482 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Olathe, Kansas
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2019, 04:03:26 pm »
I would be hesitant to drizzle the bees because they might chill.?   You might knock the mites off of the workers now but the drizzle or vaporization won't do any good on sealed brood.

Offline rober

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Thanked: 71 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2019, 04:44:09 pm »
I know o a doesn't kill mites on brood. my question is will drizzle kill the actual brood. the temps here should be good in the next few days.

Offline iddee

  • Administrator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 6122
  • Thanked: 405 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Sophia, N. C.
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2019, 05:00:43 pm »
OA doesn't, but cold, wet does.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein

Offline rober

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Thanked: 71 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 05:03:15 pm »
supposed to be in the mid sixties & near 50 at night. too cold?

Offline iddee

  • Administrator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 6122
  • Thanked: 405 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Sophia, N. C.
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 05:17:06 pm »
Depends on the temp of the liquid, the thinness of the mist, the length of time exposed, and drying time.
I would probably shake bees off the 3 brood frames, set them aside, then sprinkle the hive. Put the 3 back in and close. No liquid directly on the brood should be safe.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein
The following users thanked this post: Lburou

Offline Mikey N.C.

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1393
  • Thanked: 76 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Cameron N.C.
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 07:39:09 pm »
I'm a new beek so, how strong were the hives going into winter?  Thats been 1 of my problems not knowing what strong is!

Offline rober

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Thanked: 71 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2019, 08:50:21 am »
counting the 4 hives that I manage for my doctor I started this winter with 31 double deep hives & 2 single deeps. the singles looked iffy the doubles mostly looked to be strong hives. 3 dbls & 1 single did not make it. i'm going to start another thread about this to keep this thread on topic.

Offline Mikey N.C.

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1393
  • Thanked: 76 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Cameron N.C.
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2019, 04:33:29 pm »
There's a good youtube video of a lady in UK doing OA dribble in cold weather. Don't remember name of video.

Offline LazyBkpr

  • Gold Member
  • Posts: 6842
  • Thanked: 205 times
  • Gender: Male
  • www.outyard.net
    • The Outyard
  • Location: Richland Iowa
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2019, 10:57:36 am »
still unsure why anyone would use the drizzle method?  the bees are forced to ingest it to clean themselves up.. and it reduces their lifespan considerably...   Probably won't kill the hive because you have brood so more bees are going to be emerging...  but I do try to avoid things that hurt my bees.  A vaporizer can be used any time of the year, any season and any temperature. is cheap compared to other methods of treatment, and 30+ years of use indicate that it is harmless to bees, and that the mites don't build immunity to it.

   Drizzle works the same way vapor does.. as it dries it crystalizes, and that kills the mites...  same thing, same result, only quite a lot more harmful to the bees.   I have two Varrox Vaporizors...   kinda expensive...   but heres one for 35 bucks!!!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N10FEME/ref=psdc_4619353011_t1_B01LQTM7RC

   cant beat that price, the ease of use, or the safety and comfort of your bees.
Drinking RUM before noon makes you a PIRATE not an alcoholic!

*Sponsor*

Offline Bakersdozen

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4511
  • Thanked: 482 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Olathe, Kansas
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 11:17:53 am »
Welcome back Lazy!
Lazy, I recently heard Dr. Juliana Rangel speak about OA vaporization.  It's fine if done sparingly.  The vaporization method is caustic to the delicate parts of a honey bee, like antennae.  She reminded everyone that every time you do an OA vaporization you are exposing your queen, repeatedly, to the same harshness.  If repeated applications are necessary, it might be beneficial to cage your queen during treatment and release her after the air is cleared?  Just a thought.
Honey bees use their antennae for so many things like touch, smell, taste, hearing, etc.
The reviews on that Russian OA vaporizer are not that good.  Some folks were very disappointed.

Offline rober

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Thanked: 71 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 04:38:17 pm »
I have & use 2 vaporizers. following Jennifer berry's lead in the past I've drizzled 50/50 syrup on the bees one day & an oxalic syrup drizzle the next day. the thinking being that the bees glut themselves the 1st day & are less inclined to consume any the 2nd day.

Offline LazyBkpr

  • Gold Member
  • Posts: 6842
  • Thanked: 205 times
  • Gender: Male
  • www.outyard.net
    • The Outyard
  • Location: Richland Iowa
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2019, 07:19:00 pm »
Is that new research?  Everything I read about it said otherwise?   30 hives treated once a week for three or four months with no harmful effects, all hives survived and thrived...  Researchers in Europe testing bees that have been vaporized for over 20 years (obviously not the same bees) To see if the mites had built up any immunities, and found that the treatments were just as effective....    have most of that stuff posted on my website... if you have a link I'd really like to check it out!!!  always trying to stay up to date.. ( And usually failing)

   busy working on the new building... lot of work doing it alone.
Drinking RUM before noon makes you a PIRATE not an alcoholic!

*Sponsor*

Offline rober

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Thanked: 71 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2019, 08:50:41 pm »
I heard Jennifer berry speak at last years H.A.S conference. i'm just sharing what she said. this is about pretreating packages not hives. she sounded certain that ( in her opinion ) this practice works.
she uses a pump sprayer on the packages.
the recipe for drizzling hives is:
 500 grams distilled water
 500 grams sugar
 32 grams O.A.
heat the water & dissolve O.A. in it. then add the sugar.
drizzle 5 ml per seam
50 ml  maximum per hive
 i did this last march with no ill results. it was too cool in march this year & by the time it warmed up a local guru said it might kill the brood & got me 2nd guessing so i vaporized instead.

Offline LazyBkpr

  • Gold Member
  • Posts: 6842
  • Thanked: 205 times
  • Gender: Male
  • www.outyard.net
    • The Outyard
  • Location: Richland Iowa
Re: does oxalic drizzle kill brood?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2019, 08:22:34 pm »
I am sure it works, but the bees still have to ingest the OA to clean themselves up, and that is harmful to them...   When a bees lifespan is 6 weeks in the summer its not that big a deal to lose a few days, but for winter bees it CAN be a big deal and it can kill your hive...  Pretty sure Randy Oliver did the testing on that part of it..  will try to look it up again...   Might have it on my site too....
   Like I said, it works the same way, the difference is, the drizzle method is used WET, and has to take the time to dry to crystallize, where as the vapor method is instantly crystallized. if there are any detrimental effects of the vapor then the drizzle method will have the exact same detriments, with the exception that with the vapor is not ingested from the bees trying to clean up the liquid...  make sense???   I'd still like to see the research if there is any?  Us beekeepers constantly have to revise our opinions and ideas to keep from looking silly... although, over the years I have become VERY GOOD at looking silly!  I guess everyone has to be good at something.. right?
Drinking RUM before noon makes you a PIRATE not an alcoholic!

*Sponsor*