Author Topic: Feeding A Winter Nuc (Read 6670 times)

CBT · « **Reply #20 on:** October 16, 2016, 09:35:08 am »

I have used cane sugar that way and it works too. Yes the KISS method (keep it simple st.... ) works well.

Jen · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2016, 03:13:48 pm »

About the middle of winter last year, I made sugar cakes with Honey Bee Healthy in it, using the honey that the bees made themselves. Recipe came from Apis (Where in the heck is Apis these days?). The house smelled delicious and I felt good giving it to the bees. This recipe make the sugar cakes Malleable, it's not like hard candy, it's a bit crumbly and moist so that the bees can bite it off easily and eat it or help feed other bees with it. Trust me on this, I took a bite of it myself

CANDY RECIPE FOR WINTER FEEDING USING HONEY -- ONLY THE HONEY THAT 'YOUR' BEES MADE

*Makes 12lbs of Sugar Cakes, or 12 (1lb) patties in pie tins.

You will need a candy thermometor, not the glass tube one, I have had them break right into the recipe I'm cooking at the time. Get the stick ones.

1 quart of water
15 pounds of granulated sugar
1/4 cup of white vinegar
1 tbs Honey-B-Healthy,
1 lb. Raw Honey (from your own hives)

"Start to boil the water and add the white vinegar and keep stirring.
Stir constantly until all 15 pounds of sugar are dissolved into the
boiling water. If the sugar should burn throw it all out as the bees
cannot tell it is burned and it will kill them. Stir until the
temperature is 240 degrees not over and not under. Much over and you run
the danger of burning it. It will become milky and frothy which it is
supposed to do. After it has reached 240 degrees and you have turned off
the heat but are still stirring then add a pound of honey and a
tablespoon of honey-bee-healthy. Pour the mixture into the candy board
(we use aluminum pie tins instead) and it will set up but not completely
harden. You can put wax paper in the pie tins and then pour the mixture
in so you can lift out the pattie and reuse the pie tin for more batches. Do not
put the candy board (or pie tins) on the hive until after the bees have clustered
a couple of times as they will go to the candy and ignore their stores. Usually
this will be between Christmas and New Years. I also use this for late winter feeding."

Do not put the pie tins into the hive. Remove the sugar cake from pie tin and place right on top of the frames. Or, you could place a piece of wax paper under it.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #22 on:** October 25, 2016, 12:24:23 pm »

I am horrible at not burning the sugar, but might have to give some of these a try. TY Jen!

Jen · « **Reply #23 on:** October 25, 2016, 01:15:09 pm »

Also, I need to alter this recipe just a bit.

Don't put the honey and Honey Bee Healthy into the syrup just when you take the boiling hot syrup off of the stove. It's way to hot and will destroy the good nutritional qualities of the honey, and the healing qualities in the essential oil that are put into the Honey Bee Healthy.

If I remember right, the syrup should be 50 degrees or less to add the honey and HBH. And it takse that big pot of syrup a few hours to cool down. Use your candy thermometer to make sure the temp is 50 or below.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #24 on:** October 25, 2016, 01:23:00 pm »

50 or below? So.. I have to refrigerate it? Or do you mean 50 degrees cooler than the 240? 190 degrees or cooler?

iddee · « **Reply #25 on:** October 25, 2016, 01:48:50 pm »

I would think 50 C. about 122 F.

Jen · « **Reply #26 on:** October 25, 2016, 02:19:54 pm »

I cool it down to where I can stick my finger in the syrup and it's still hot but not burning my finger

CBT · « **Reply #27 on:** October 25, 2016, 08:40:10 pm »

Jen, Ever burn your finger testing that syurp

Jen · « **Reply #28 on:** October 25, 2016, 09:05:17 pm »

CBT, Actually no I haven't burnt myself on scalding hot sugar syrup yet, but I do still manage small finger injuries pulling foods from the toaster oven...

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #29 on:** October 26, 2016, 08:39:12 am »

Quote from: Jen on October 25, 2016, 01:15:09 pm

Also, I need to alter this recipe just a bit.

Don't put the honey and Honey Bee Healthy into the syrup just when you take the boiling hot syrup off of the stove. It's way to hot and will destroy the good nutritional qualities of the honey, and the healing qualities in the essential oil that are put into the Honey Bee Healthy.

If I remember right, the syrup should be 50 degrees or less to add the honey and HBH. And it takse that big pot of syrup a few hours to cool down. Use your candy thermometer to make sure the temp is 50 or below.

Jen, do you mean 80 degrees? 50 F would mean refrigerating it and 50 C would still be too hot. At that temperature the good stuff would cook out of the honey.

DebNoble · « **Reply #30 on:** October 26, 2016, 09:19:22 am »

Thats a good question Jen! I'm wondering about that too - in fact I'm pretty confused about the whole sugar-cake/candy-board thing (I'm so new at this I'm not even sure what to call it)... I thought that boiling sugar was bad for bees but so many recipes say to boil it?! Is there a way to just mix sugar with a bit of water and dash of lemon juice without cooking it? Can it be placed right on the top frames or should there be some kind of rack or screen under it...? Any help would be appreciated

Jen · « **Reply #31 on:** October 26, 2016, 12:07:37 pm »

Baker's question - "Jen, do you mean 80 degrees? 50 F would mean refrigerating it and 50 C would still be too hot. At that temperature the good stuff would cook out of the honey."

Jen's reply - "I cool it down to where I can stick my finger in the syrup and it's still hot but not burning my finger"

Seems we go thru this temp thing every Fall. Two winters in a row it has worked for me to put my finger into the syrup until I can keep my finger in the syrup a few seconds and it's still hot, I don't know what temp that is, I'll mark it down on my recipe sheet this year. That's when I add the honey and Honey Bee Healthy. Stir well, then pour into the wax paper pie tins, let set up overnight. It makes really nice honey cakes.

Jen · « **Reply #32 on:** October 26, 2016, 12:24:49 pm »

DebNoble - "Thats a good question Jen! I'm wondering about that too - in fact I'm pretty confused about the whole sugar-cake/candy-board thing (I'm so new at this I'm not even sure what to call it)... I thought that boiling sugar was bad for bees but so many recipes say to boil it?! Is there a way to just mix sugar with a bit of water and dash of lemon juice without cooking it? Can it be placed right on the top frames or should there be some kind of rack or screen under it...? Any help would be appreciated"

Deb - I sure don't know about the raw sugar and lemon juice, haven't heard that one before. In this recipe I like that fact that there is the bees's own honey in the recipe. So I'm not seeing how the honey would get dispersed evenly with raw room temp sugar. Probably it would simply take a lot of stirring and mixing. Or, the honey could be softened by setting it in a pan of warm water or by the wood stove, that would make it more stirable.

However, my thought would be if you put that sugar honey mixture into the hive, it would more than likely drip into the hive frames below. I think that is what the boiling is all about... making a firm candy that will not drip or melt.

Curious, why lemon juice?

DebNoble · « **Reply #33 on:** October 26, 2016, 03:10:42 pm »

Jen - I read somewhere that a dash of lemon juice or vinegar helps to keep the sugar cake from going mouldy but I think CBT mentioned how it also helps chemically to make the sugar more digestible...? I do like your recipe using some of your own honey - I'm just not thrilled about having to boil the sugar etc. (I was thinking more along the lines of a modified mountain camp method). I'm also not sure about when to put it on the hives - maybe as a Christmas treat? Thanks for all the ideas

rober · « **Reply #34 on:** October 26, 2016, 03:47:23 pm »

I make the sugar cakes using pretty much the same recipe as above minus the honey. you can lower your chances of scorching the syrup by using one of these. https://www.amazon.com/Stovetop-Simmer-Aluminum-Diffuser-Electric/dp/B010VUSX52/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1477510448&sr=8-5&keywords=flame+tamers.
my wife can actually cook rice without burning it by using one. works great for anything that requires long periods of simmering. I put the cakes right on top of the frames & add a 2" spacer rim. I usually put the cakes on on a warm day in December. if I get a warmish day in February i'll check to see if the hives need a 2nd cake.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #35 on:** October 26, 2016, 04:00:30 pm »

I believe, the lemon juice, citric acid, cream of tartar etc all help convert some of the sugars while boiling so you end up with a fructose and glucose combination that is more like honey and a little easier on the bees ability to use them... Someone please correct me if that is wrong..

I use sugar cakes without the boiling... There is a thread on here somewhere about it.. I mix 25 lbs of sugar with about a pint of warm water and stir with a cordless drill and paddle.. Pack into pan and then heat them to about 200 degrees for a couple hours, shut off oven and let then sit overnight. Pop the cakes out of the turkey pans in the morning.

Jen · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2016, 09:20:35 pm »

Scott, you mean like a paint paddle?

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #37 on:** October 29, 2016, 08:32:32 pm »

Yes, a paint paddle will work if it is rugged enough to stir the sugar without bending.

Knucs · « **Reply #38 on:** November 02, 2016, 01:38:21 am »

Here's a recipe from Lauri Miller, an innovative well respected queen/Nuc producer. NO COOK, fortified with vitamins & minerals. Also, sugars are inverted with apple cider vinegar & citric acid = no dysentery.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?290641-My-recipe-method-for-sugar-blocks

tecumseh · « **Reply #39 on:** November 02, 2016, 06:44:20 am »

LazyBkp writes...
I believe, the lemon juice, citric acid, cream of tartar etc all help convert some of the sugars while boiling so you end up with a fructose and glucose combination that is more like honey and a little easier on the bees ability to use them... Someone please correct me if that is wrong..

my comments...
these will invert the sugar and thereby convert it into a compound that is fairly similar to honey. at least according to 'the old guys' who I use to work with and a good deal of current research data in regards to winter survival of hive you need not think that a block of sugar with a bit of water added has the same net results as inverted sugar (or foundant or drivert sugar). sometimes very small things does make a lot of difference.