Author Topic: 2nd go around at grafting.  (Read 13215 times)

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Offline Yankee11

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2nd go around at grafting.
« on: May 29, 2014, 11:56:26 am »
Last time was 8 out of 16.   50%

This time 15 out of 25.  60% Still not great but some improvement. What is an acceptable rate of acceptance?



Grafted from this Queen  :D




Offline Papakeith

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2014, 01:42:25 pm »
I dunno, looks like she missed a few cells.  If you want you can send her to me for my brood laying bootcamp.  I'll make sure she works on completing one frame before moving on to the next.
I'm starting to think that the bees are keeping me...

Offline Yankee11

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2014, 10:04:25 pm »
Lol, papa

I just hope I can stay in front of her. She might work me.

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 10:14:54 pm »
 ;D
   I cell punch 12, and hope for 8 to 10...    Even using the whole cell they will sometimes not draw them out. The reallyu hard part is when they DO draw all of them...   and I only have room for 10....   I HATE nipping a queen...
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Offline Yankee11

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 10:58:53 pm »
I think my next try will be using a cloak board and having the whole top deep box as a starter.

I did not like the way my starting nuc worked. I had a good pile of dead bees in the bottom after 48 hrs. I they had plenty of food. 2 frames one nectar and 2 frames with pollen. I had a cup of water in the bottom with a paper towel in it. They were not drowned. I had them in the shade. I noticed they were covering the screens wanting out. I wonder if I shook off a bunch of foragers.

I am thinking with a deep of bees that maybe I'll have better luck with the starting.

Offline ablanton

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2014, 10:32:02 pm »
I had a good pile of dead bees in the bottom after 48 hrs. I they had plenty of food. 2 frames one nectar and 2 frames with pollen. I had a cup of water in the bottom with a paper towel in it. They were not drowned. I had them in the shade. I noticed they were covering the screens wanting out. I wonder if I shook off a bunch of foragers.

Same, here.
Andy

Offline Yankee11

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2014, 10:46:14 pm »
Im going to let them hatch out in these cages. Wont the bees feed them through the cages or do I need to remove after they hatch and put some Honey on the side of the cage for them to eat.

Thought I would try this instead of the incubator this time of year.





Offline jb63

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2014, 02:53:42 am »
Those look great.Where do you get those cages?
I don't know.It was like that when I got here.

Offline Yankee11

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2014, 08:04:54 am »
I got the cages, posts and all at Mann Lake.

So far I like the system. It all snaps together and I saw yesterday they have candy plugs that snap into the end when you remove the cage.

Offline DLMKA

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 03:42:59 pm »
Yankee, when you put those cells in mating nucs do you put the cell in with the brown cup the egg is in plus the holder or have you been letting the virgins hatch into the hair roller cage and introducing virgins?

Offline riverbee

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 06:20:30 pm »
these cages are also great to have laying around in the event you need to cage a queen. easier to run a queen into than a benton or jz bz cage, and also can house/transport/mail with the candy cup/closure.

here is mann lakes page on it....

Mann Lake Queen Rearing Kit

yankee are you using this method for these queens (instructions from mann lake on graftless).  i would like to try this next season, and also some grafting, so am very interested in your thread.  thanks!

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Offline Yankee11

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2014, 03:57:11 pm »
DLMKA- I have done it both ways. I have put the capped cell without the cage directly in the nuc.






I have also let them hatch inside the roller cages





Offline Yankee11

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2014, 04:03:11 pm »
Riverbee,

I have not used the grid yet. I have just been grafting. I want to get good at grafting, it's a challenge I guess.

My next go around will be using the Cloak board method for the starter/finisher hive.

Plus, I will be adding attendants in the roller cages with the capped cells to assist the queens in hatching.

I have had some queens dieing either while emerging or soon after they emerge. I am thinking they are using to much energy trying
to emerge all on their own.

May try the grid in the future.

Offline Lburou

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2014, 09:00:33 pm »
Yankee, I've read where percentage increases with experience, peaking in the 90+ % range. 

Are you putting two larva in each cell?  I'm doing that and priming the cells with a small drop of a honey and water mixture.  I've done three rounds with nearly 90% success.

I'm using the Hardin method and it is easy.

Keep it up, looks to me like you are doing just fine.  :)

lee
Lee_Burough

Offline riverbee

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2014, 11:35:13 pm »
"Riverbee,
I have not used the grid yet. I have just been grafting. I want to get good at grafting, it's a challenge I guess.
My next go around will be using the Cloak board method for the starter/finisher hive.
Plus, I will be adding attendants in the roller cages with the capped cells to assist the queens in hatching.
I have had some queens dieing either while emerging or soon after they emerge. I am thinking they are using to much energy trying
to emerge all on their own.
May try the grid in the future."


thank you yankee, appreciate your reply!
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Offline Yankee11

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2014, 08:46:00 am »
lburou,

That was another thing I wanted to add to this next go around. "Priming the cells" what is the mixture us use?

Have not heard of putting 2 larva in a cell, may try that.

Also don't know about Hardin method, I'll check it out.

Thanks,

Offline Lburou

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2014, 12:37:59 am »
lburou,

......."Priming the cells" what is the mixture you use?....

Just some honey and water to thin it a bit.  I didn't use a recipe, just what seemed okay to me.

'Double grafting' increases your chances for each cell.  I read about it online somewhere, wasn't my idea.    HTH  :)
Lee_Burough

Offline efmesch

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2014, 02:33:40 am »
Putting two larvae in each cell is not the same as double grafting.  Unless I am misunderstanding, putting two larvae implies putting them both in at the same time and letting the nurse bees select which larva is raised to completion. 
Double grafting involves starting a queen cell with one larva, letting the bees start to raise it and after a few days removing the started larva and replace it with another one,  In theory, this gives the second larva its start at development on a thick bed of royal jelly, with no waiting time till it feeds on a surplus of food.  While some queen breeders swear by this method and claim that it produces much more developed queens with larger ovaries, others say that it makes no real diffeerence.
You can try it and decide for yourself if the extra time and effort are worth the results you get.  Of course, the second graft is maade only in cells that have been accepted, so there is a larger percentage of success with these graftings.

Offline Lburou

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2014, 10:36:19 am »
Thanks for the clarification efmesh  :)

If I understand you correctly then, I'm not double grafting, its just putting two larva into a cell at the same time.....?  It does work for me.  A single larva resulted in less than 50% the one time I did it that way.  Not trying to hijack your thread Yankee, I think we all want the same thing.  :) 
Lee_Burough

Offline apisbees

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Re: 2nd go around at grafting.
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2014, 11:38:16 am »
To add to Efmesch with the cells primed with royal jelly the larva will not dry out as with normal grafting. Also when you for move and replace the larva there is extra royal jelly in the cells that the bee excepted so some of it can be transfers into cells that we're not excepted to increase the success of all the second grafting.
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