Author Topic: How To Spot A Queen  (Read 7503 times)

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Offline Jen

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How To Spot A Queen
« on: January 12, 2014, 03:57:50 pm »
Last fall I spotted my queen, was so happy to see her. Then I buttoned up the hive for the winter.

My friend here in town has a single deep of which he acquired a swarm from my hive last spring. He doesn't check it much, so I do.

Last fall, I checked his hive three times very thoroughly and I could not find the queen. I figured that the hive would be dead by now, but by golly they are still hangin'. I even pushed bees around to try and find her.

Maybe she doesn't look like my queen? genetically she came from my queen?
There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline Slowmodem

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2014, 04:00:59 pm »
I rarely see the queen.  However, if there are eggs, there is a queen.  :)
Greg Whitehead
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Offline Jen

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 04:03:11 pm »
Slow- I agree. I don't have to see her if I see eggs. However, I did my search for both queens in late fall when there was no brood or eggs.

I like to get a glimpse at the end of the season if I can.
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Offline Crofter

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2014, 04:09:13 pm »
I nearly squished one that hid amongst some drone comb on the bottom of a frame. Was smoking the bees off it just before I swiped with the hive tool when she came running out. I seldom ever saw that queen; she sure was shy!
Frank

Offline GLOCK

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2014, 04:13:02 pm »
I could not find the queen till my third year but now I can find the queen most every time if I want to.
I only look for the queen  when I want to pull her out of the hive. Other wise I just look for eggs.
I do like taking pics of my queens.

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This one the queen is laying.

Queens yay!
Say hello to the bad guy.
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Offline GLOCK

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2014, 04:22:22 pm »
Now wait I don't want to be sexist.
Say hello to the bad guy.
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Offline Jen

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2014, 04:31:26 pm »
Okay then I'll say it........ "Wow! she's just downright sexy isn't she!?"

The last pic, Wow what a beautiful shot!
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Offline Jen

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2014, 04:32:54 pm »
Crofter- this is another reason why I want to go nine frames in a 10 frame deep. I'm worried that I will roll my queen.
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2014, 05:00:03 pm »
Keep posting those pictures Glock! I like seeing your queen about as much as you do!!!

   I have a queen that would send tremors of terror up the arms and back of a lot of beekepers.. IF, she survives the winter I will get a picture of her..  she is striped, JUST like the workers with a black tip on her abdomen..  Spotting her is nearly a futile effort. I got her last spring in a swarm trap. I saw her eggs, but I couldnt EVER seem to find her...   FINALLY she caught my eye after about four inspections...  I looked at her for several moments in confusion until it dawned on me that it WAS the queen.
   I REALLY wish I had a picture of her. I hope she survives so I can remedy that situation...

   I always had difficulty spotting queens...  A local beekeeper that SELLS queens asked me if I would lend a hand finding the queens in his starter colonies..   I wasnt very enthusiastic about it, but he uses three frame nucs to hatch and start the queens...
   I am here to tell you, after finding about 30 queens and putting them in queen cages, spotting them became a WHOLE lot easier..  I suppose it is like anything else.. practice makes perfect!
   I Always look for the queen now. Eggs are great, but when I inspect I LOOK. If I see eggs, fine, but I prefer to see the queen. The practice in finding her is invaluable. I want to raise queens eventually, so having the skill to find them is important. If its a good day and warm, I take the extra time to find her.
  If you know anyone nearby that raises queens, ASK to help spot them. They may be a bit nervous about allowing you to catch and cage them, but at least help SPOT, it will astound you how much easier it becomes!   Having people post "find the queen" Pictures is the next best thing. the bees arent moving around, but it still trains your eye to spot her royal immenseness.
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Offline Crofter

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2014, 05:05:02 pm »
It sounds a good idea; you may find though that the frames get built up with propolis and burr comb  to fill the spaces if you space them out evenly. If you do not you have to divide the extra space between both sides of the box or push the frames all to one side. Any way you do it is a compromise of theoretical bee space.

Usually if you look down into the frames you can see where the bees cluster the thickest and that is where queenie most likely is. You can be fairly safe in pulling the outside frame the furthest away then to give yourself room to slide each frame over before you lift it.

Your temperature probably is high enough in mid summer to be a concern for ventilation and running 9 over 9 frames. Up here, not so much, ;)

May you never squish a queen (unless it is one you dont like)!

Frank

Offline rrog13

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2014, 05:13:00 pm »
This is a queen I got last year doing a cut out.  I always like finding the queen.  Sometimes, if I hold the frame I’m inspecting at an arm’s length I spot the queen easier.  Looking at the frame as a whole, the movement of her and the bees around her just seems to be more evident. At least for me.



Offline efmesch

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 05:18:08 pm »
Finding a queen can be one of the most frustrating tasks for a beekeeper.  Even if the hive is not crowded, queens seem to make it their business to hide, and they usually do a good job of it.
That's why Slowmodem's answer is so good.  If you can know the queen is there without seeing her, it is often (but not always) adequate.

Another way to know that the queen is present (even if there are no eggs) is to listen to the hive's "music" or read the bee's behavior.
A queen-right hive, when opened properly, will continue with its' business as if nothing has happened.  A queenless hive, even if opened expertly, will respond to the "disturbance" with a distinct   buzzing that soon fades away.  The bee's behavior will be overactive and "nervous", seemingly running around the frames without a purpose. 
Spotting either of these signs takes a bit of experience, but if you are aware of them and look for them, they are not too hard to recognize.

But, what about the cases when you MUST see the queen, like when you're catching a swarm or want to know if an old queen has been replaced?  I'll jump to the "last resort method" and leave room for others to tell of their preferred methods.
If you force all the bees to go through a queen excluder, the queen will get stopped when she tries to go through.  There are many ways to do this, I'll suggest only one here. 
Place a super without any bees in it (but with frames) on the hive's floor .  Above it, place a queen excluder and above that place the super where you think  the queen is located.  If there are more supers that might have the queen, do this to each, one at a time.
OKAY, now you use your supercharged smoker and fill the upper box with so much smoke that the bees move down. After the super is empty or almost so, raise the super and examine the excluder for the queen.  If not there, check the almost beeless frames, one at a time for the presence of the queen.  You should carefully remove frames 1 and 10 (those next to the walls), examine them, put them aside and make a space in the center of the box. Lift the frames one at a time, hold them by the sides and bump them down firmly on the super in the space you've made.  Your hands not the top bar bump the top of the super and all bees get dislodged and thrown down onto the excluder.  After all frames have been de-beed, check the excluder again for the queen. 
If you've done this "last resort" method properly and haven't found the queen,  than she isn't there.
But maybe she was and just flew off..... :'(
So now someone else will give you a more enticing, less extreme method, one that should be used before this suggestion.  :)

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2014, 05:41:43 pm »
I have used a queen excluder, and a couple weeks of waiting to figure out which BOX she is in, but hadnt considered your last resort method.. Even using your method to "thin the herd" will make finding the queen easier. Thanks for posting that!
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Offline Jen

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2014, 05:52:35 pm »
rrog- that is what my be guru says, that the queen's movement is different than bees, it's a fact.
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Offline Jen

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2014, 05:56:25 pm »
Crofter- that is exactly what is the situation in my bottom deep now. There is a lot of talk about it in the post "Frames Used", and I do have a problem of two frames that are crossed combed like cement. My judge and jury still out on this one. River and I have talked about it.
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Offline Perry

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2014, 05:59:11 pm »
General rule of thumb for me, if I don't need to find her, I almost always will.
When I really need to find her............
I have gone through a 5 frame nuc with only 4 frames in it, looking for the queen before releasing the nuc, and had to walk away in frustration after 3 attempts. When I'm making up nuc is another time. I like to find the queen, cage her, and then take my time pulling just the right frames for the nucs.  Every now and then they just seem to go out of their way to be difficult. As much as I love the look of the really dark queens, I find them the hardest to spot.
As mentioned  above, movement is one of the things I notice right away.
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Offline Jen

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2014, 06:44:41 pm »
""Finding a queen can be one of the most frustrating tasks for a beekeeper""

"EF! That is just   brilliant! Of course! Makes so much sense!"

uuuhhhh, can I say  NO  :-[
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2014, 06:48:49 pm »
LOL
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Offline Jen

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Re: How To Spot A Queen
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2014, 06:51:13 pm »
Gonna print this one off ~ Thanks ef  :) 8)
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