Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => Swarms, Cut Outs, Trap Outs and Bee Trees => Topic started by: Yankee11 on March 08, 2015, 12:19:08 pm

Title: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Yankee11 on March 08, 2015, 12:19:08 pm
 I found some swarm cells yesterday and could not find the queen but I know she still in theer, Q cells were not capped yet and saw a lost of eggs in frame cells.

This will be a good time to give the new Swarm Bandit a test drive.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fhl71lz02r%2F20150308_110145.jpg&hash=94196d87eb779563dc82d0b3125ac536e828c7b8) (http://postimg.cc/image/hl71lz02r/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fixoqnuxib%2F20150308_110207.jpg&hash=cb4f0f52a9fb0b6830a41b2167b2ed652406eaf6) (http://postimg.cc/image/ixoqnuxib/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fa3xu6rajn%2F20150308_110243.jpg&hash=6ab07936b61dab05f4d6e97c2382a8ee59e1d617) (http://postimg.cc/image/a3xu6rajn/)
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: efmesch on March 08, 2015, 12:54:20 pm
For the uneducated [like me], please explain how it is supposed to work and what management practices are necessary during its use.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: kebee on March 08, 2015, 12:56:57 pm
 Looking to see how this works for I was thinking of getting one of those, be watching this thread.

Ken
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: tefer2 on March 08, 2015, 01:15:45 pm
http://orrbeesupply.wix.com/obs/swarm-bandit#!__swarm-bandit
How would you know that the queen is still in the little box when you close the door?
She didn't want to leave in the first place. Most likely snuck back it!  :D
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: efmesch on March 08, 2015, 01:39:14 pm
Looks interesting.  For the sake of being "the devils advocate" I'll ask:
1. What guarantees that the queen (who has been dieting in preparation for swarming) will not be able to fit through the same spaces the workers can (and fly off with the swarm)? 
2. What guarantees that the queen will enter the "trap" when the bees try to swarm?  As I understand it, the queen doesn't lead the swarm but joins it.  If the bees don't move off, maybe she'll stay back in the hive.

Having said that, I'll add: the idea looks good and, like Kebee, I'll be following this thread for reports on how it works in practice.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Ray on March 08, 2015, 02:06:43 pm
C.C. Miller's Fifty years among the bees(?)
(If I remember correctly what I read.)
Mr. Miller clipped his queens wings. When they swarmed it was without the queen. The swarm would then return to the colony after spending some time waiting for her highness. In the confusion of a large bee yard, the swarms would mingle and Mr. Miller would be in fear that, one of the hive would release a virgin queen and the huge swarm(s) would accept her.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Yankee11 on March 08, 2015, 04:42:37 pm
Ive been in contact with the beekeepers that patented this. they said they have tested it for 3 years and had other beeks testing it.

The queen leaves the hive and enter the box where she gets trapped. The swarm hangs off the front of the box. If you don't get to it that day the queen and swarm goes back into the hive at night, next day they try again. after about 3 or 4 days the new queen in hive hatches and one usually kills the other.

You check it and find the swarm hanging on the box, you slide the trap door closed. then you take the box and slide in the entrance of a new empty hive and by the end of the day the queen will leave trap and go into new hive.\

We will see.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: brooksbeefarm on March 08, 2015, 05:05:16 pm
I think it's like the old time queen trap made of woodstays that i have? the problem they had with this one, it got packed with drones along with the queen.Not many on here know's what i'm talking about except iddee, tec, rat, G3, you know, the old guy's. :D Jack
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: tefer2 on March 08, 2015, 05:29:15 pm
If this contraption really worked, everybody and their brother would already have one.
I'm with Jack on this one. An old idea reinvented for new beekeepers!

Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Yankee11 on March 08, 2015, 06:49:57 pm
I emailed them about the drones.

They said they did not cause a problem. These don't get left on the hives all summer. They said there is a step up to get into this trap box and the drones end up on the bottom boards and don't clog. Kind of like turning you entrance reducer upside down. The dead bees stay on bottom board and the bees crawl over them to get out.

We will soon see if this thing works.

29 bucks. If it catches one swarm it pays for itself.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: LazyBkpr on March 08, 2015, 11:23:44 pm
29 bucks. If it catches one swarm it pays for itself.

   Agreed, watching with interest!
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Dunkel on April 03, 2015, 09:20:08 pm
Can't wait to see if it works.  Beekeepers love a gadget me included.  The problem with beekeepers though is they will spend 500 dollars on tools to make a 30 item just to justify the purchase after buying  the item. Me included.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: LazyBkpr on April 03, 2015, 09:32:57 pm
From C.C.Miller's fifty years among the bees;

   One morning, five or six of us, who had occupied the same bed-room the previous night during the North American Convention at Cincinnati, in 1882, were dressing, preperatory to another days work. Among the rest were Bingham, of smoker fame, and Vandervort, the foundation mill man. I think it was Prof. Cook who was chaffing these inventors, saying something to the effect that they were always at work studying how to get up something different from anybody else, and, if they needed an implement, would spend a dollar and a days time to get up one "of their own make" rather than pay 25 cents for a better one ready-made. Vandervort, who sat contemplatively rubbing his shins dryly replied: "But they take a world of comfort from it." I think all bee-keepers are possessed of more or less of the same spirit. Their own inventions and plans seem the best to them, and in many cases they are right, to the extent that two of them, having almost opposite plans, would be losers to exchange plans.

   It held true then, and it holds true now!
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: robo on April 03, 2015, 10:06:06 pm
could not find the queen but I know she still in theer, Q cells were not capped yet and saw a lost of eggs in frame cells.

eggs means she was there in the last 3 days, no guarantee she is still there.

This is not a new concept.  Kelley sold a similar, more compact device in the 70's.   A lot of things look great on paper but turns out the timing is so critical it is more of a PITA than the worth.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: quest on January 07, 2018, 08:01:10 pm
I found some swarm cells yesterday and could not find the queen but I know she still in theer, Q cells were not capped yet and saw a lost of eggs in frame cells.

This will be a good time to give the new Swarm Bandit a test drive.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fhl71lz02r%2F20150308_110145.jpg&hash=94196d87eb779563dc82d0b3125ac536e828c7b8) (http://postimg.cc/image/hl71lz02r/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fixoqnuxib%2F20150308_110207.jpg&hash=cb4f0f52a9fb0b6830a41b2167b2ed652406eaf6) (http://postimg.cc/image/ixoqnuxib/)

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fa3xu6rajn%2F20150308_110243.jpg&hash=6ab07936b61dab05f4d6e97c2382a8ee59e1d617) (http://postimg.cc/image/a3xu6rajn/)
I know this is an old thread...am interested on anyone's experience with the Swarm Bandit
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Barbarian on January 08, 2018, 01:16:43 am
Thorne.co.uk offer a similar trap.
A footnote on their catalogue ... "needs daily attention".
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: efmesch on January 08, 2018, 02:26:55 am
Quest, I have no experience with the swarm bandit, but I did notice that this was your first post so allow me to welcome you the the forum.  I hope you have good experiences here and maybe someone will even give you some good info in the swarm bandit.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: quest on January 08, 2018, 08:26:15 am
Thank you,
I am a hobbyist beekeeper with 2 hives...I am going into my third Spring...my first was the initial set up, my second was engulfed in swarm drama after a very warm winter. I am hoping for a better experience with more knowledge, equipment on hand, and a very cold winter
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: efmesch on January 08, 2018, 09:19:46 am
It sounds like you're starting right---two hives is ideal for beginners (but you are no longer in that category!). 
It also sounds like you have a lot of good stories to share, when you want.  Swarms are all very exciting, especially when you first have to deal with them.  Capturing them is one of the most enjoyable activities in beekeeping and no two swarm experiences are exactly alike.
You are written down as "Location: US"  That covers a lot of territory and includes areas with cold winters and warm winters, (Maybe his year it's all cold).  Could you be a bit more specific about your location and update the information in the forum records.  Often, understanding situations and responding intelligently to questions is dependent on knowing just where you are located to understand the climatic influences on the hives.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Wandering Man on January 08, 2018, 06:43:04 pm
Welcome to the forum, Quest!

As ef said, knowing where you are will help with answers down the road.

Besides, we are all really family here, and like to know where our brothers and sisters live.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: CBT on January 08, 2018, 07:47:02 pm
Welcome and glad you found us. If the queen is lost enough weight to fly well like swarm queens are could she get through that excluder ya think.
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: brooksbeefarm on January 08, 2018, 09:09:57 pm
She might? if she can get through all the Drones? Jack
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Sour Kraut on January 13, 2018, 11:56:54 am
OK, let me play Devil's Advocate on several points here:

1) not to be preachy, but the very fact that the colony HAS swarm cells points out a lack of space given in a timely fashion; not being judgemental here, just pointing out a problem that we've all unintentionally created at some point, whether caused by inability to get to the colony due to weather, other more pressing concerns, lack of available equipment to give more space, the list could go on for a bit.

2) the device WILL restrict both ventilation and forager passage.

3) suppose it works as advertised and you DO trap the queen....until you go back and find her in the trap and remove her (or whatever you are supposed to do at that point), you will have a colony that just sits there; overcrowded and ill-ventilated.

My $ 0.02, and it is worth exactly what you are paying for it:

Spend the money on a deep hive body, frames and foundation, and 'checkerboard' the lower brood box early...much earlier than you think necessary, when the first pollen starts to come in is not too soon.

That is all, the Soapbox is now available for anyone else.........






Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: apisbees on January 14, 2018, 03:45:56 am
OK, let me play Devil's Advocate on several points here:
1) not to be preachy, but the very fact that the colony HAS swarm cells points out a lack of space given in a timely fashion; not being judgemental here, just pointing out a problem that we've all unintentionally created at some point, whether caused by inability to get to the colony due to weather, other more pressing concerns, lack of available equipment to give more space, the list could go on for a bit.

There are more factors than just space and management that causes the bees to build swarm cells and other than intense hive manipulation and beekeeper intervention to keep the bees from swarming, some hives will build cells and swarm even though they were cared for in a responsible manner.
Bees want to swarm It is their way of natural survival. They build up in the spring to swarm. Giving the bees the space needed is the first step in swarm control but does not guaranty they will not swarm. there are additional factors. A hive full of bees with little work to do, Many more bees in the hive than what are needed to preform the daily hive duties. Lots of young bees under 3 week old with little to do as the honey flow has not started although there is lots of space once it starts. These bees will start making queen cells cause they have nothing ease to do. How do you manage hives that are places in conditions like this? These condition can differ from year to year depending on weather and temperature and how it effects bee flight and foraging.
The first natural deterrent to the decrease in swarming tendency is when the day begin getting shorter after the summer solstice, but if the bees have already started the swarming process they will continue to raise the cells. Also when the bees get into a good honey flow and all the bees in the hive are kept busy from foragers to house bees and if they are kept with an abundant of extra space to meet their needs raising brood, in ripening nectar and storing honey. They are also less likely to swarm as long as the swarming tendency was kept in check before the flow started.
Some of the most meticulous beekeepers that I know lose a few swarms every year. There are things that us as beekeepers have no control over and how the bees decide to react to what is happening in their environment during those conditions during any given year is out of the beekeepers control.
One of the more popular intense management techniques for swarm control is the Demaree's method of swarm control. Where you let the hive swarm but you move it up in the hive away from the queen so she keeps laying, and the swarm cells can be managed in the top super of the hive, With a replacement queen being raised or nucs made with drawn cells.
For more information on the Demaree's method of swarm control. do a search and there are many variations on how to do it depending on what you want out of it, your hive condition,
Title: Re: No need for swarm traps when you have Swarm Bandit. .
Post by: Sour Kraut on January 15, 2018, 01:16:10 pm
Perhaps I should have started point # 1 out with 'in my experience' or 'experience shows that'

As it stands I am guilty of the Sweeping Generalization.

And yes, we have all had colonies that will swarm at the drop of a hat, for no reason, in spite of 'doing all the right things at the right time'.