protecting hive from bears

[ward]

We purchased a yellow jacket electric fence kit to place around our hive. This is powered by a 12 volt marine deep cycle battery. How do you keep the battery charged? We purchased a solar battery charger. The attached picture shows our set up. Our bees will be arriving first week of June. Hope this works.

[tbonekel]

Of all the things that make me thankful for raising bees in Texas, is that we don't have to worry about bears. Now if wild hogs take a liking to honey, we may have something to worry about.

[robo]

Better get that fence baited or the bears will walk right through it.   You need them to touch the fence with their nose or tongue.  Their fur insulates them from the fence.


Rob......

[ward]

Thank you. Will do that.

[robo]

Good luck, you have a nice set-up there..

[riverbee]

hi ward,
hmmm, trying to figure this out, what you did here.......do you have a voltmeter? to measure the volts coming off the tape?

"We purchased a yellow jacket electric fence kit to place around our hive. This is powered by a 12 volt marine deep cycle battery. How do you keep the battery charged? We purchased a solar battery charger. The attached picture shows our set up

a few questions and comments....
did you leave a battery in the yellow jacket unit?
which battery are you trying to charge?
what is the solar panel hooked up to?
batteries in solar units are charged by the solar panel.  the yellow jacket comes with a battery, that needs recharging from time to time, or switch it out with another to keep a charge on the fence, while the other is being charged with a small charger.  i am not familiar with whether or not the yellow jacket can be charged with a solar panel or not.
your 12 volt marine battery, you should keep this covered.
keep your ground rod/s wet
the yellow jacket by itself, (my understanding of them) does not put out enough voltage to keep bears out, you need no less than 7,000 volts or above 0.75 joules to detour or shock a bear.

i would get a volt meter and measure the voltage coming off all 4 poly tape.  if it is less than 7,000 volts, i would be concerned.

to what rob said, with your set up, i would bait the poly tape, and i would use strips of aluminum foil wrapped on and slobbered up with peanut butter.  what a bear will do, without it, is go right through the poly tape.  with the strips of peanut butter on, a bear will bite or try to lick off the peanut butter strips, and bam! shock!......

here is a thread with some good info on bear fencing, i have several posts there with some good info and great pdf files:

Fenced Enclosure

i hope this helps you......
just not sure what you have going is going to stop a bear, just my HO.....

[blueblood]

Whew, that is some set up!  Glad I don't have to worry about the bears here.  Just the run of the mill pesticides the farmers spray.... 

[ward]

Riverbee, I have the solar panel hooked up to the 12 volt battery at the same time I have the battery hooked up to the yellow jacket. So the battery is being charged at the same time it is being used by the fence. The battery seems to absorb all the current and not become overcharged with the 15 watt solar panel. I called the solar panel company to see if it was ok to do this and they said yes.

I am concerned that the setup won't keep the bears out either. I have the peanut butter wrapped aluminum foil (red squirrels walk on the wire and steal it!) to bait the bear. I tested the wire(webbed type) with a zareba voltage tester and it recorded 7000 v. You make me feel more confident now that you told me how many volts I should have.

[riverbee]

okay ward, thanks for the reply. 

i use a solar fencer that puts out about 12, 000 volts,  and i use high tensile wire, not poly tape.  i have a bit of a fortress going, but what gets me is, you are saying squirrels are on walking on the poly tape and stealing the peanut butter with no shock?  i know what happens when squirrels hit my fence.....they don't come back, so i am scratching my head on this one.......?

[apisbees]

River has brought up the to bait of not to bait debate.

Bears are curious but they are also cautious. Bears will be attracted the the insect and the smell coming from the hive. They do not know how much work it is to get at them or what all they will find once they get in there, until they have been their once. when you first place hives in a yard a bear will notice the insects and the smell and will see the white boxes and they will cautiously approach the hive. They will circle them getting closer and closer and if you have an electric fence they will be cautious as they approach this new barrier and as they check it out and stick their noise to sniff it they get a shock and back off, the bear will check out the fence barrier from several angles getting shocked each time and backing off. not knowing what is in the white or in your case pink boxes, the bear will abandon it's pursuit of the flying bees and smells. But the bear has learned the boundaries that have been set by the electric fence.

Now same hive same location but without a bear fence in place. The bear continues to circle the hive curiously approaching it and eating some bees at the entrance but dew to the knowledge the bear has it knows if it tares the insect colony apart it will get to the larva and grubs. During this the bear also discovers honey. So now we have a bear that knows what is in the white boxes and as a beekeeper we have discoverer how destructive a bear can be to a hive. Now with several hives less we install an electric fence around the remaining hives. We feel we have added the protection the hives need from the bears. This is where the bear fence hive protection system fails. The bear has already included the whole area up to the hives as his area, He knows what is in the hives, he knows the risks (a few bee stings) are worth the rewards (bees, brood, pollen, and honey).

So the bear is no longer approaching the hives cautiously and the fence wire barrier is not noticed by the bear until he is shocked. Because he was heading directly to his destination, the hive. He will be part way through the fence before he receives the first shock and when he does in trying to get away from the shocks, he will take the fence down grounding it and rendering the fence useless until repaired. But until then the bear has access to the hives.

Lets back up a paragraph.
So the bear is no longer approaching the hives cautiously and the fence wire barrier is noticed by the bear because the wire has been baited. the bear comes along to the hive picks up a new sent something has changer so the bear becomes cautious again stopping before the fence barrier and sniffing and extends his noise to check the new fence out getting the shock that sets the new boundary's and the bear will approach from different angles seeing if there is a way in but getting a shock every time is enough of a deterrent to keep him away.

In summery For myself and with my understanding of bear biology, I put up electric fences if the hives are placed in bear country before the bears get a chance to find out what is in the hives. Because of this, the fence does not need to be baited as the bears will be approaching with caution the fence and the hives.
I don't like the idea of baiting because we are providing a powerful smell that will attract bears and other animals to the bee yard where the yard may have gone unnoticed. I have never baited my fences, or had a bear go through a fence. I have seen the grass beaten down around the fences and fresh bear crap near the yard but never had a bear go through.

But be a day late in putting up the fence and you have to bait to get the bears attention to the fence and that you have placed new boundary's.

The strength of the shock provided by the fencer. When it comes to bears, bees, honey, and electric fencers, we are talking risk and rewards. The bear is willing to take the risk of bee stings for the reward of brood and honey. Once they know the rewards that await them in the hive, they are willing to take the shock risk to get to it also. The 7000 joules seems to be the big enough wallop to turn the bears around and for them to respect the fence boundary's and that going through is not worth the reward. I have heard of cases that the bears have gotten into the hives, so know the rewards and so the risk of a few shocks are worth the rewards and will continue to walk through the fence to get to the hives and the only solution is either lead or moving the hives

[LazyBkpr]

   Having lived in Maine I will agree with what Apis aid whole heartedly..

   I will add to the Squirrel part..
   Mrs. River..  HOW is it possible that your squirrels are getting shocked?  They have to touch the ground AND the fence to make a complete circuit.
   It's like a bird landing on a high voltage wire. So long as he only touches one he is fine. If his Wing contacts the second he is instantly cooked bird..
   If you have metal posts with plastic insilators, and the squirrel climbs the post, he is grounded through the post when he reaches the wire, and the circuit is completed and VOILA!!  FLYING SQUIRREL!!!

[riverbee]

alright guys...........

i grew up in western montana, out in the toolies.....land of black bears and grizzly bears, lots of different types of livestock to protect, so i do know a little about bears and fencing.  bears aren't always cautious, they saunter up, sniff around and your hive/s are it, and they waste no time taking them apart, that's all she wrote, and don't bother to pick up the pieces and set it all back up for them without a fencer.  a good fence and fencer with plenty of voltage first, bees next, not the other way around, and also set up a fence design to keep them out from the get go.

yep scott, the squirrels are grounded, and they can't run across the tensile wire. 

apis, i don't bait my fencing, never have never will, and i am an advocate for not baiting electric fencing for the reason you stated, it attracts them and other critters. i thought in other posts, you advocated baiting an e fence?  i won't use any voltage less than what i have, and i was prepared to jump it up to 14,000 volts. i want a bears respect for that fence immediately.  personally i wouldn't use anything less than 10,000 volts. i have used the yellow jacket that ward is using (7,000 volts) in a pinch, but wouldn't use it on a permanent basis.

risk and reward.  i have invested too much hard work, sweat equity, time, money, equipment, bees and queens to let a bear decide they are going to take the risk for the reward, so i have some serious bear fencing going on. they like brood more than anything else, honey is just desert. they will drag brood frames a distance away from the hive/s, and scatter frames helter skelter, and ruin all the woodenware.  if they want it bad enough they will try to get it......i don't give the bears that chance.  so far, so good.  they have stuck their noses on my fence or licked and/or bit the wire......that's about it.  gone baby gone.

having said that i don't bait my fence and i don't advocate baiting of an e fence, if i had ward's fence apis, i would definitely bait this fence, otherwise the bears are going to walk right through.  if they bite the bait, they might not. 

wards pictures of his e-fence are here in this thread in his first post, and also here:

ants and red squirrels first post

buying bees post #22

[apisbees]

I totally agree with you Riverbee I have never baited a fence because I have always made sure my fence was up and working when I have taken the bees into bear country.
But once the bear has hit the hives, When installing the fence a day later than what it should have been is when beekeepers have problems with the bear going through the fence and breaking it down. Baiting the fence at this time is necessary to get the bear to check out the new boundary. I like to suggest sardine cans as lures punch a hole in the lid and the cans and hang them from the fence wire with a piece of wire. If you don't want to eat 10 cans of sardines you can open one and rub the smell to other types of cans and hang them on the fence.
As for the type of wire, all or them work the old standard was polywire that I have used the most it is reusable and worked great for temporary fences in the fireweed. The polytape was designed and and sold with the sales pitch as it is more visible to the animals so they will walk into it by accident less. But for a permanent fence, solid posts and steel wires are the way to go. If there is live stock in the area barbed wire can be used, so the fencer and batteries can be brought in during the winter when the bears are hibernating. This will keep the domestic animals from rubbing against the fence and stretching the wires when the fence is not electrified.
Keep in mind when laying out your fence boundary's, that hives have the distinction of multiplying and at times we need a place to drop down another hive dew to capturing a swarm or making divides to keep a hive from swarming. Ward if you are like many that get into bees with a single hive, your Enthusiasm will soon outgrow the size of your fence. having the type of fence that you do will allow for easy relocation of the posts and the the rewiring of it.

[ward]

I decided to do away with the baiting of the fence since I don't want to attract more wild life unnecessarily. I do like the idea of being able to expand the fence size when I need to. So far no sign of bears investigating our hive.  Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge.

[riverbee]

your welcome ward, and thanks apis for your comments.

in the beginning i chinced (tried to cheat and knew better) here and there, lost a few hives along the way.  we always say 'money' and what the cost is of e-fencing, but if you live where bears are, or take your hives where bears are, it will cost you more if you don't use e-fencing or don't get it right the first time around to keep them out.  i do have a permanent set up. if need be, i could probably fit more than 10 hives in, but really don't want more than 10 hives, and for me there really is no need to move them on my property. i have been asked a number of times to place bees in 'nearby' orchards. i have declined all, because of their unwillingness to put up an electric fence to my liking..... except one neighbor who was willing to do so.  i am getting too......... something anymore to be moving hives around.....

i am not fond of electrified barb wired fences......having seen too many tragedies with other animals, including livestock, getting hung up and tangled up in this stuff and shocked to death.  ain't pretty.

wish you well ward, keep us posted!