Inspections done today and have a question,

[Yankee11]

I know this might need to be in the disease section and we can move it there but wanted to start here because I think more folks come to this section,

I had inspections done today with state bee inspector. Everything went well in out yards. Then we ended hear at my home yard. He found 2 hives with
EFB. He did not inspect every hive here (5 I think it was) 1st 3 ok then last 2 EFB We tested the first one for both AFB and EFB, The second he just looked at. But I agree with him that the second one looked just the other that he tested.

So, here is where I am having trouble,

He had me cage all 15 hives queens for 10 days and treat all 15 hives with Terramycin (Terra Pro).  He said need a brood break to allow bees to clean all the cell and get the medication spread throughout hives. Do the medication 3 to 4 times 4 days apart.
As I caged all 15 queens, I was not understanding why I need to weaken the hives that are strong and show no signs of EFB. I found 1 more that had spotty (shot gun brood pattern). I don't have a problem treating them all with the powder, as everything I can find about this usually cures it, as well as a strong laying queen,.

I would have thought that when we found the 2nd hive we would have gone through all 15 and identified each one that had a problem, (which is what I did when I caged all the queens) Most others had very solid capped brood patterns.

It was getting late in the day and I kinda feel like he said just treat them all was the quickest or easiest way to handle this for him, But I would rather cage 3 or 4 queens than 15 if the capped brood patterns look solid,

Any thoughts, I am kind getting a second opinion here, I like the guy a respect his view, but, something inside me just says I shouldnt weekend the string hives,

[apisbees]

He maybe is being over cautious, but we also get a lot of bee drift between colonies. More than most people realize. Where ever the source of the infection being a robbed out feral colony other hives could be infested but not displaying any visible symptom.
A little later in the season and you could have shaken a package moving the queen to the new shook swarm and placing cells into the effected hives to achieve the same 10 day brood break.

[Yankee11]

Thanks Apis,

What do you think about releasing the queens in the hives that have a good tight brood pattern and just treating them with the Terramycin? This is where I am having a problem,

[Yankee11]

Why do you say a little later in the season as far as shaking them, because of a flow?

[Perry]

Whenever I found AFB in a yard, the entire yard was quarantined, and the entire yard had to be treated. Each hive in that yard had to be checked frame by frame. Almost always (after discussion with the owners) the AFB affected hive was destroyed.
While EFB does not require the same level of protocol, I would always err on the safe side.

[Bakersdozen]

Yankee, it could have been worse.  Really. The inspector could have instructed you to requeen all your colonies in that yard.  EFB is caused by a bacteria.  It is easily spread by bees drifting and the beekeeper reusing old equipment or moving frames of brood from hive to hive.  Like treating for varroa, if one colony in a bee yard has them, you should treat all the colonies in that yard.  This brood break allows the bees to clean out the empty cells and distribute the Terramycin.
A point of interest in Kansas:  The word on the street is that Kansas is going to restrict the use of Terramycin products to beekeepers next year.  We will have to go through a veterinarian to get a prescription!  I picked up a canister of  Terra Bee this weekend and plan to use it as a preventative.

[Yankee11]

I am sending some of my nuc orders to another beek that has nucs still available.

I think it best to not take a chance of selling any nucs from this yard. If I get it in shape then I can always sell nucs later after I am clear.

It's still very early in the season and I have plenty of time. But I need to help these folks get bees while they can.

[Yankee11]

Ok,

Inspector called me back and we had a miscommunication yesterday. He meant for me to treat every hive with the Terramycin and if the brood pattern was questionable then cage that queen. If capped pattern was solid then let her be.

This makes total sense to me.  So not as bad as I lost sleep over last night.

[apisbees]

Why do you say a little later in the season as far as shaking them, because of a flow?

The time of the year when we want to see the most growth in the colony is in the spring. Doing anything that impedes that growth is hard to do. Later on in the season stopping brood production or getting a colony to raise a new queen is less disruptive.

[Yankee11]

I did remove the brood frames today to speed up the brood break. the inspector was a little concerned that most of that brood comb looked old and was worried about the bee being able to clean it up good enough. So I pulled the combs that had the foul brood in them. shook the bees on some new clean looking pulled comb.

Still caging queens in questionable hives while the house bees clean everything up. Then hopefully off they go.

I got to release 9 queens today so that was a plus.

Just like everything else n beekeeping, a learning experieance and now I know more about what to look for early.

[Lburou]

Thanks for the thread and the update, it brings up important points to ponder. 

[Perry]

Thanks for the thread and the update, it brings up important points to ponder. 

 

[Yankee11]

I couldn't take a chance on these frames getting stuck i another hive and I REALLY didn't want bees robbing them out. This whole thing has been a kick in the gut, but been around long enough to know good things usually happen after something bad happens.

Bout the time you feel like giving up, something happens that keeps you coming back for more. ;

[apisbees]

The latest claims are that the wood frames can be soaked in bleached water to kill efb and afb

[Jen]

So sorry Yankee, it's an icky stinky business and throws everything off, including our bruised attitude. My second spring I brought home a new hive from a beekeeper on the outskirts of town. A little while down the road I knew something was suspicious when I pulled the lid and an unfamiliar odor rose up. Trouble was that my friend brought home a hive from said beekeeper the same day I did. I drove out to his place and sure enough... Stink! I was ticked. Beekeeper gave me some terra pro and instructed how to use it on the tops of the frames. Was not instructed to take the queen out. I was still ticked. But learned later that this beek has a dirty apiary. Needless to say I haven't gone back there. However, he is still in business making lots of honey at the farmers market and selling dirty bees. Grrrr Had to burn the whole works, all frames tainted. What a pain in the arse!

[Yankee11]

Ok, so I got my grafting goggle and head lamp on. I saved one brood frame from a hive, just to see what I could learn.

First thing I noticed up close that there was a lack of Royal Jelly in the cells with the tiny larvae. Right next to eggs where I usually graft from.
There is honey on the frame. every cell had a egg in it, Lots and lots of eggs. So is the queen laying more eggs than she has nurse bees to feed?  Because there is honey on the same frame.

Next thing- this frame is completely laid-so I am thinking my queen is actually laying fine.

Also uncapping the capped brood that it is at different stages of development all over the place, telling me that she is just going around plugging holes. Instead of the typical brood hatching  from the middle to the outside.

[Yankee11]

Sorry Jen,

I am burning my own stuff anyway, I canceled some nuc orders today and found nucs for all the folks I cancelled on, making sure they get bees.

I think I will overcome this, so far everyone has thanked me for being and honest and ethical guy.

What an education I have gotten in the last 2 days. Be back to normal in a month or so. It's just March 8th 

I will be better at my inspections from now on. Just another thing to recognize.

[Jen]

Good attitude Yankee... and you will notice these signs very quickly from here on out because your knowledgeable alarms will go off right away when you see it. I have never forgotten the sunk in crispy brood caps, they just don't look right. And if you catch it right away you can save the hive.

And by the way, you did the right thing canceling the nuc orders. Your people will rememeber and respect that much more than getting a batch of sick bees like I got. Bravo On You! 

[Zweefer]

Sorry Jen,

I am burning my own stuff anyway, I canceled some nuc orders today and found nucs for all the folks I cancelled on, making sure they get bees.

I think I will overcome this, so far everyone has thanked me for being and honest and ethical guy.

What an education I have gotten in the last 2 days. Be back to normal in a month or so. It's just March 8th 

I will be better at my inspections from now on. Just another thing to recognize.

Speaking for one who has dealt with less than ethical beekeepers, this says a tremendous amount about not only your operation, but you as a person.  I know I would be back the next time I needed bees, even if I didn't get them this year from you.

Sorry you had to have this experience, but happy to see your attitude towards this "lesson".

Here's to your bees coming back stronger than ever!

[kebee]

 Sorry for your lost here Yankee11, I think you went for and beyond what most would have done and I am sure you will gain all you have lost soon.

Ken

[Yankee11]

I moved all these bees to sunflowers last fall and all of the hives affected were from same place,

I am in no way pointing a finger but I wonder about how much single source pollen they had/have in these hives. Does anybody know much about sunflowers. Seems like I read something on here about beeks up north not have much luck with sunflowers any more.

It's behind me know but would still like to know if something happened.

[Yankee11]

I have a question about this EFB.

I was instructed to cage the queen for 10 days to get a brood break. I caged her but I went ahead and removed any frames that had brood on them. So did ZI not speed up things or do you think I still need to have the queen caged up, They have been broodless since Monday