Author Topic: OAV treatment (Read 14390 times)

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #20 on:** August 31, 2016, 07:47:10 pm »

Yes, there is wiggle room, but MORE is not always better.
Yes, the crystals transfer... it is how they kill mites when it is cold and the bees are clustered, the OA Vapor cannot get to the center of the cluster, but as the bees move into that cluster, the crystals transfer.
No it is not absorbed into the wax, it deposits on bees, frames, wax etc as minute crystals, and the bees pick those up on their legs and bodies and carry them about, mites come into contact with those crystals and are killed. Tests have shown that the wax, and honey have no higher concentration of OA in them a week after treatment than they had the week before treatment. It is the crystals that kill the mites, the natural Oxalic Acid IN the honey and pollen have no effect. It is "believed" that the crystals penetrate the SOFT parts of the mites, around their mouth, legs etc. and that once contact is made the mite dies.. no chance for a build up of immunity... ALL subject to change as is just about everything bee related!

Nugget Shooter · « **Reply #21 on:** September 01, 2016, 09:14:53 pm »

Something else to consider is the type bottom board you use.... If solid wood the vaporizer (if the metal plate type) will work faster than the same unit on a metal #8 wire screen bottom. Why? The metal screen will act as a sort of heat sink and as a result it will slow the vaporizer some as it draws heat away and will also use a bit more power.

I lessened my time by almost a minute and a half by doing this insulation trick since I indeed use closed screen bottoms in my hives.

Gypsi · « **Reply #22 on:** September 01, 2016, 10:42:22 pm »

I like that insulation board a lot Nugget Shooter. I have been using a lawn mower / motorcycle battery, and at full charge it will do one full melt on crystals in 2.5 to 3 minutes, then it is dead as a doornail, so I was doing one hive a night, not thinking about bees moving around from hive to hive. I was doing at dusk. my big hives no big issue to close but I had a little hot one (with a drone laying queen) last fall that I tried to nurse through the winter just to have something to put a queen in, and that one was ferocious, good thing I had zippers closed.

I am probably due for a new battery. will charge this one and see how it does, it's not old And I am probably going down to just one hive here with the rest remote, which might cause some need bigger battery issues. if I do one in the morning early and one at dusk I can charge in between..

rrog13 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 04, 2016, 10:34:10 am »

When doing OAV treatments, I normally just pull the truck up close, leave it running, pop the hood and go to work. I treat several hives at a time. As long as you keep the vehicle running, the alternator should keep the battery charged.

Jen · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2016, 07:32:34 pm »

That's a good idea rrog. I would probably have to splice the electrical cord and add more length tho. I use a large yard wagon, put every thing in it and pull it along as I need.

neillsayers · « **Reply #25 on:** September 04, 2016, 08:31:38 pm »

With summer winding down I decided to do a mite count and was all geared up for treatment. Counts on my three hives worked out to 4 per hundred, 2 per hundred , and 0 per hundred. Very encouraging, but at least 2/3s of the brood comb is in capped and open brood. So, I really can't be too thrilled until this bunch emerges. I'll give them another month but in the meantime these are much better numbers than I had at this time last year!

Jen · « **Reply #26 on:** September 04, 2016, 09:53:44 pm »

How do you make your count Neil?

neillsayers · « **Reply #27 on:** September 05, 2016, 12:10:38 am »

Quote from: Jen on September 04, 2016, 09:53:44 pm

How do you make your count Neil?

I was afraid someone would ask me that question.

I use natural drop over 2 or three days, in this case two days. Then i count mites, divide by the number of days and get a daily drop. Then I multiply each by 400. This is a number I got from a British beekeepers site. Then I estimate how many bees I have based on how many frames they can cover-in this case because it's a warre comb about 2000. Then I work out the per 100 number to get an idea of the varroa population in the hive.
As a general metric if my daily is drop is less than 10 I don't get too concerned . If 20 or higher treatment is definitely called for. In the late summer/early fall when the hive is broodless it becomes much more critical. After this bunch emerges if my counts are over 5 I will probably treat to keep those winter bees as strong as possible.

Now that I've written all of this and probably because I'm loopy with fatigue, I'm now convinced my math is all wrong.

I will check it tomorrow and include a addy for the site to which I was referring.

Bottom line- I had 2 mites on one board , 4 on another and 0 on the third. This was after 48 hours under the SBB.

Jen · « **Reply #28 on:** September 05, 2016, 12:54:33 am »

I see. I use screen bottom board with sticky boards as well. I keep the sticky boards on at all times then take a peek at them every couple weeks. If I see 10 mites, I treat.

That's how I do my math LOL

CBT · « **Reply #29 on:** September 05, 2016, 08:23:24 am »

Keep in mind after the hive has reached its peak for the year and starts cutting back in the fall the mites don't and you can easily get caught with 3 times the mites per 100 bees. That can put your hive real trouble.

neillsayers · « **Reply #30 on:** September 05, 2016, 09:50:06 am »

Quote from: CBT on September 05, 2016, 08:23:24 am

Keep in mind after the hive has reached its peak for the year and starts cutting back in the fall the mites don't and you can easily get caught with 3 times the mites per 100 bees. That can put your hive real trouble.

Absolutely, this time of year is critical. I don't want my winter bees going into the season weakened. But a treatment right now would be wasted as I have twice as many bees under cappings as in the hive and likely twice as many mites. I will continue to monitor and when inspection shows the brood rearing has slowed or population is booming, I'll hit with a couple of timed treatments.
These Russians I keep will rear brood in sync with nectar flow and this spring/summer has been very poor. Best I can figure is all the rainy days or maybe the very mild previous winter.
Right now they have found something and are filling comb rapidly, I'll have to add room today. I'm guessing either basswood or early goldenrod.

Jen · « **Reply #31 on:** September 05, 2016, 12:01:08 pm »

CBT ~ Been There! Life takes the beekeeper off course some times. But there were times when I have checked my hives during the brood cut back, and all seems well. Then two weeks later all hades breaks loose and I'm finding my poor bees wandering on the ground with deformed wing virus. It's so sad to watch them wabbling around like that

I've been checking my sticky boards the last two weeks and the mites were building up. I like to do my OA on Sunday mornings, so I proceeded yesterday. Pulled my sticky boards out to clean it off so I have a clean slate to count the mite kill in a week. Sure enough there is a bee with no wings, but none on the ground. Think I caught it in time. This 4 time treatment will clean up the mites and then the bees can make healthy winter bees.

Wandering Man · « **Reply #32 on:** September 05, 2016, 01:17:51 pm »

Quote from: Jen on September 05, 2016, 12:01:08 pm

This 4 time treatment will clean up the mites and then the bees can make healthy winter bees.

Jen,

Do you treat four weeks in a row? I thought 3 was the recommended dosing.

-WM

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #33 on:** September 05, 2016, 02:24:18 pm »

If you skip a week before the last treatment three works, if you dont skip four will get you to the 21 day mark so all emerging bees have their mites eradicated.

Jen · « **Reply #34 on:** September 05, 2016, 04:43:42 pm »

Wman, funny you ask that. Now, for the last 4 years I have been treating on Sundays, 3 Sundays in a row. I "thought" I had the 21 day hatching cycle. But just a couple weeks ago Apis and Iddee explained differently in that 4 Sundays in a row would treat the 21 day cycle. I got my calendar down and counted it out (I Am Not A Mathematician) and by golly I see it now.

However, these last 4 years, I have been doing the 3 Suns in a row... and it seems to be working just fine.. shrug.. meaning I haven't lost a hive to mites yet. knocking on head knocking on head

Wandering Man · « **Reply #35 on:** September 05, 2016, 07:25:43 pm »

Well, if the cell isn't capped until day 10, and they emerge at day 21, isn't that just 11 or 12 days?

Or are they under the wax for 21 days?

Or does the OA vapor not penetrate an uncapped cell?

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #36 on:** September 06, 2016, 05:08:14 pm »

Cell is capped at day nine or ten, correct.. There is some controversy about the effectiveness of OAV on mites in cells with Larvae of five days or older.. I know the vapor gets into those cells, it gets into EVERYTHING as easily as smoke... Do the young mites move OUT from under the larvae? Are the crystals still present when the mites are old enough to move about more?
We still have a lot to learn... The very basics of it is, that OAV does not affect the bees, the honey, the wax etc, EVEN when tested by treating once a week for an entire winter.. the bees came out of winter strong and healthy and the hive was booming in no time.

In effect, you could treat at day 0 which could be considered day nine, and then treat again on day 12, which would be day 21 to the larvae that were capped the first time you treated, and catch the mites emerging from those cells.

I know beeks that treat ONLY ONCE in the spring, and only once in the fall, and i am keeping close tabs on two of them, just to monitor their mite levels and see how their treatment schedule works..
I only treat once in the spring, usually as early as possible, so there is less brood... Possible to me = when i dont have to worry about shivering any more....

BUT, in the fall, I want to make SURE the bees that will be my OVERWINTERED BEES are well treated and as healthy as possible...

Take care of the bees, that take care of the bees that will be going into winter. Larry Connor catch phrase.

In effect, you treat the bees that you want to be as healthy as possible, so that they can make sure the next generation of bees is as healthy or healthier than they were, so that those bees will then insure the bees that will live all winter in your hives are as healthy, mite, and disease free as they can be... his philosophy is, that a sick bee will not care for another new bee as well as a good healthy bee can or will.
So I treat three times, to KILL as many mites as I can. Day 0, Day 7, SKIP, and day 21. I may not NEED to do that, but I can say it works VERY VERY well, so until I have been shown a better way I will stick to doing that.

CBT · « **Reply #37 on:** September 06, 2016, 06:49:34 pm »

If one treatment one time kills 90% a treatment like that in June, Aug,Oct and just before your winter starts should work well. In between there would not be enough mites to cause a problem. Long time ago I treated as you discribe three or more in a row but haven't found the need for multiples in a month. Food for thought.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #38 on:** September 06, 2016, 06:57:46 pm »

When you treat, there WILL be some capped cells, os unless you treat when there is no brood, your not going to knock the mites down enough. Yes, you will knock their numbers down, but those that emerge from those cells will quickly rebuild... if you also knock THEM down, then it takes even longer for the population to rebound... When it comes to wintering, i am all about healthy bees.. as healthy as i can get them.

I have heard, that if I keep the mite levels TOO low, the bees will never build any resistance....

Yeah, i guess i can see that. What remains, is that I really do like having live bees in the spring. late August early Sept treatments of OAV in the manner described raised my winter survival by 40%.. Of 50 hives I lost an average of four, while most of the rest of the state posted losses of 40% to 70%...
You may VERY WELL be right! But, like I said, this works, I know it works, have seen it work, can prove it works... So.... if it aint broke..... I will really really TRY not to fix it.

Wandering Man · « **Reply #39 on:** September 06, 2016, 09:36:27 pm »

I treated for the third time yesterday.
Today I had 154 mites in one hive, and 10 mites in the other.

I promised the girls this would be the last time until Spring.

Now I'm thinking I'll have to go back on my word. Wife is worried they won't trust me anymore.

Author Topic: OAV treatment (Read 14390 times)

Gypsi