Author Topic: WHOOO HOOO!  (Read 37256 times)

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Offline Jen

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #120 on: May 24, 2014, 11:30:23 pm »
What Pete said  ;) 8)
There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline apisbees

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #121 on: May 25, 2014, 10:54:07 pm »
Haven't been back in a while.
Hive # 1 is close to what you should expect in a nuc the brood areas could be a little larger and the nuc is short on bees by about 1 frame that is the cause of the smaller brood patches.
Hive # 2 Where to start! This hive is short a frame of brood and 2 frames of bees. What is the cause of this you ask? In my opinion, The brood pattern on almost every frame is terrible. Spotty, Spotty, Spotty. Either from a poorly developed, Poorly matted, or laying Diploid eggs. to me it looks like a case of the queen mating with her drones or such a confined gene pool that the eggs are being fertilized from sperm from her sons. the bees are removing the diploid workers on day 4 or 5 and the queen has to go back and relay the empty cells. If you click on frame 12 frame 13 will appear.http://postimg.cc/image/s1u32jhsx/ If you count across 50 cell in any row between 23 to 34 will have been relaid with replacement larva all the same age. So a little over 50% miss rate on the queen putting a healthy fertilized (not by her son) egg into the cells.
Solution, this hive needs to be requeened! What might work is to take a healthy frame of brood from hive 1 and do a break down queen cell so the raise a replacement queen. If there are no unrelated drowns in your area the replacement may suffer from the same problem of the queen you are trying to replace. Send a photo to the brood pattern to the producer if he ever contacts you, and get a replacement queen. If you did see any eggs or young brood on any of the replacement frames use them for a break down queen cell. Buy a queen from a reputable queen producer. The last suggestion would most likely give you the best results.
Just my opinion on what I am seeing in the pictures.
Great pictures, even the blurry ones it shows us what is happening in the hive and what you are looking at and trying to describe.
Honey Judge, Beekeeping Display Coordinator, Armstrong Fair and Rodeo.

Offline riverbee

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #122 on: May 26, 2014, 09:05:14 pm »
"I guess the only question I have at this point is is there anything more I should be doing?  as they are bringing pollen in, should i supplement with a pollen patty?  As they are not taking the syrup is feeding still necessary?" 

thanks for the update zweefer, and the update on resolution with the supplier. 
as far as your question.......relax and enjoy. no need for a pollen patty. leave the feed on a little longer for now......
looking forward to a post when you can get in there and take a lookie see at what's going on, and how the queens are doing.   ;)

apis, great analysis. scroll back a few pages to read the saga of where these bees came from and what zweefer has been dealing with. 
i keep wild things in a box..........™
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #123 on: May 26, 2014, 09:39:49 pm »
thanks apis!  I appreciate the look and opinion. As riverbee indicated the chances of me getting anything from the producer are at best 0.  ???

I will be going in tomorrow to check on status since adding the latest addition.   I look forward to everyones opinion after that.  I will as always try to take some photos (my cameraman will be at school though  8))

I honestly feel like they are finally on the right track, but will see once i get to inspect the frames.
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
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Offline Jen

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #124 on: May 26, 2014, 10:29:38 pm »
Zweef- "I will as always try to take some photos (my cameraman will be at school though)"

    No excuses mister!

     You ought to see some of the postural positions I get into to take My Own pics!....  or... maybe that wouldn't be a good idea after all....   :D

 
There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline CpnObvious

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #125 on: May 26, 2014, 10:37:22 pm »
After seeing how much progress mine have made drawing virgin foundation in a mere 24 hours, I'd think yours would be coming right along!  I can't wait to see pics of how much they've done!

Offline Zweefer

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #126 on: May 28, 2014, 11:15:56 pm »
Okay - had a rain delay yesterday, but the weather was much more accommodating today I'll give the short version-

1st hive:

top shot



I was pleased with the progress of this hive.  it's brood pattern though not perfect looks to my novice eye to be doing alright compared to what i started with...



here is another frame of brood



Then her majesty showed up so I could thank her in person for not having two nail biters on my hands



and as it was my first time finding her, and she is royalty after all, I turned into the paparazzi



but she tired of the limelight and sauntered off to go back to work


to sum up:  more bees - better brood pattern than when i received them, eggs in most empty spots, and honey and pollen stores on outside (Not shown) They are taking a fair amount of syrup.

Hive 2

top of hive - forgot to get a photo before smoking them, but hopefully you can see them between the frames and get a good idea of where they are at.



I did not see her majesty in this hive, and the brood pattern continued to be extremely spotty in places (more on that later)
I did find these three gems however -none were capped.



a closer shot



here is that frame of spotty brood mentioned earlier



the innermost did look a bit better though



and they are starting to build up some stores



apparently I took too  long with my inspection as the bees started to festoon between the frames



So to sum up, it appears to have more bees than before - brood pattern still not ideal, did not find the queen, 3 supersedure cells - but did see signs of life at all stages - very few eggs though :(  They seem to barely be touching their syrup
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
Henry David Thoreau

Offline pistolpete

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #127 on: May 29, 2014, 12:02:53 am »
What you are calling spotty brood is actually just an area of brood that's hatched out, with a ring of slightly younger brood around it that hasn't hatched yet, but will soon.  it's normal to see concentric rings of brood like that.  With a good queen the area in the middle would immediately be re filled with eggs.  Were there larvae inside the queen cups, or were they dry?   If the queen is indeed failing, you might want to check if you can buy a new queen locally.  It will set them back nearly a month raising a new queen.  You'll see a peak in bee numbers while the capped brood hatches out, but then with a lack of new brood coming on line the population will dwindle again.

The bees are looking good.  Hive one looks like it's at 6 to 7 frames and will need another box in about a week.   Hive two is still at about 4 frames, which is a good starting point for a Nuc this time of year.  Hopefully they'll get the queen sorted out.
My advice: worth price charged :)

Offline Jen

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #128 on: May 29, 2014, 01:19:26 am »
Nice reply Pete- I learned something there  :) 

Zweef- Well from what I saw in your first pics, this is much better, doesn't look so bleek! I'm happy for you! Give the queen some time, as your bees build up she will have more direction on what to do and where.  ;D
There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline apisbees

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #129 on: May 30, 2014, 04:10:53 am »
Where there eggs in the 3 supersedure cells or young larva? depending on the egg or larva development you and get a better idea of the emerging, mating, and when the queen will be back in the hive, If you decide to let the bees replace the queen. If you decide to follow Pete's advice and buy a replacement queen which will greatly improve the hive in the short term with the extra frames of brood that you received you could always take the frame with the cells and a frame from hive 1 and some bees and start a nuc as well.
Keep us informed Thanks.
Honey Judge, Beekeeping Display Coordinator, Armstrong Fair and Rodeo.

Offline Zweefer

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #130 on: May 30, 2014, 12:18:03 pm »
sorry apis - there were no eggs  or larvae in the cells
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
Henry David Thoreau

Offline apisbees

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #131 on: June 02, 2014, 03:32:29 am »
So you found 3 queen cups. Queen cups are common in the hive and do not necessary mean that the hive is superseding of swarming. Until there is either an egg, larva, or pupa, in the cell or cup, it is not a queen cell but a queen cup.
Honey Judge, Beekeeping Display Coordinator, Armstrong Fair and Rodeo.

Offline Zweefer

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #132 on: June 02, 2014, 11:45:05 pm »
yup. no longer worried about them.  i'll go in tomorrow or Wed and see what we have...  hoping to add another deep then too
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
Henry David Thoreau

Offline Zweefer

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #133 on: June 15, 2014, 12:35:03 am »
Finally found the queen in the weak hive during my last inspection... 
Went in to determine if she was in there, and why the hive was so far behind the other one.
My mentor was able to make it out and look with me (due to other personal issues he has been unable to assist - this was his first time seeing the hives).



upon opening the hive, it appeared like the bees had not increased in number at all since the last inspection



frames 1, 9 and 10 were untouched.



the inside of frame seven did show the beginnings of stores however.




This was the brood pattern we found.  it became very apparent I will be needing to replace this queen ASAP.


here is her majesty :






I placed an order for a new queen through Ebert Honey Queen Bees. should ship the 17th.
Will post after she arrives and I dispatch the current one.
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
Henry David Thoreau

Offline apisbees

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #134 on: June 16, 2014, 03:06:20 am »
You look in the comb and she is back laying in all the empty cells. and I bet if you looked at a fresh frame that she will have laid an egg in almost every cell. This looks to me as a very sever case of diploid drones. This is something that beekeepers should keep in mind and be on the look out for when raising their own queens or making walk away splits. This can easily happen if the area you are keeping bees and allowing the queens to mate doesn't have a diversified gene pool.
Honey Judge, Beekeeping Display Coordinator, Armstrong Fair and Rodeo.

Offline Zweefer

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #135 on: June 16, 2014, 11:54:51 pm »
You look in the comb and she is back laying in all the empty cells. and I bet if you looked at a fresh frame that she will have laid an egg in almost every cell. This looks to me as a very sever case of diploid drones. This is something that beekeepers should keep in mind and be on the look out for when raising their own queens or making walk away splits. This can easily happen if the area you are keeping bees and allowing the queens to mate doesn't have a diversified gene pool.

when this happens, pinch and replace is the only way to go, correct?
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
Henry David Thoreau

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #136 on: June 17, 2014, 08:12:33 am »
Yes. Not well mated means replacing her. I am somewhat surprised the bees have not already gotten this process under way. Usually it is better getting a mated queen. The only advantage of letting them do it is locally mated queens. Depends on your area/bee population. We have plenty of DCA's so queens seem to mate well after the end of May.
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #137 on: June 17, 2014, 05:27:05 pm »
mine should be arriving soon!
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
Henry David Thoreau

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #138 on: June 17, 2014, 08:05:45 pm »
Let us know how the re queening process goes!
Drinking RUM before noon makes you a PIRATE not an alcoholic!

Offline Zweefer

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Re: WHOOO HOOO!
« Reply #139 on: June 17, 2014, 09:25:14 pm »
Will do.  In the meantime my Father's Day gift arrived from B&B this afternoon!

It's just so shiney!
Keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.
Henry David Thoreau