Author Topic: Oxalic Acid Drizzle  (Read 366 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rober

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 844
  • Thanked: 38 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« on: February 11, 2018, 12:22:59 pm »
I found several threads about O.A. vaporizing but not drizzling. anyone in our group using this method?? & if so what were the results?

Offline Bakersdozen

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2634
  • Thanked: 218 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Olathe, Kansas
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 02:57:41 pm »
I used the OA dribble method the first time I use OA.  It worked fine.  I don't remember mite kill numbers.  I just remember that my colonies went through the winter just fine.  I believe I read that someone in research is recommending the dribble method over vapor.  But, I can't back that up.
I got a syringe from the Tractor Supply store. 

Offline Jen

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9266
  • Thanked: 169 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Upper California
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 03:24:55 pm »
Hi Rober, I have never used drizzle method personally, always OA vap for about 6 years now. During our last bee meeting we were discussing vap vs drizzle. Our county commissioner said there is now more info on drizzle method and some consensus on drizzle maybe being more effective than vap. I told him that I've been vaping for 6 years now and have never lost a hive to mites at any time of the year. He said "If Vap is working and effective for you then keep doing what you are doing"  ;) 8)
There Is Peace In The Queendom

Offline neillsayers

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1731
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 04:44:18 pm »
Rober,

Here is a page with a lot of info. You may have already seen this.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-powerpoint-presentation/

Hope this is helpful.
Neill Sayers
Herbhome Bees
USDA Zone 7a

Offline rober

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 844
  • Thanked: 38 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 04:45:02 pm »
I've read some of that. this looks interesting too.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/extended-release-oxalic-acid-progress-report-2/
what i'm after is 1st hand experience like baker's
one of the more experienced beeks in my area is using the drizzle method with good results. he's diluting it in water. I've seen where some are mixing it with sugar syrup. i'm looking for details on the recipes as far as how much acid per pint, quart...... to me it looks like drizzling is safer for the beekeeper. it also makes the application simpler since you do not need the vaporizer or
have to drag around a power source.

Offline neillsayers

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1731
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2018, 05:19:17 pm »
The little I know is the dribble is supposed to be harder on the bees and safer for the operator. Opposite for vape. Randy Oliver has instructions on mixing with sugar syrup in that link.
Neill Sayers
Herbhome Bees
USDA Zone 7a

Offline Lburou

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2038
  • Thanked: 260 times
  • Location: DFW area, Texas, USA, growing zone 7a
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2018, 08:42:52 pm »
The little I know is the dribble is supposed to be harder on the bees and safer for the operator. Opposite for vape. Randy Oliver has instructions on mixing with sugar syrup in that link.
The limit for dribble is twice a year, more than that hurts the bees.  You put a lot more OA in the hive with dribble, that is why I never tried it.  :)
Lee_Burough

Offline Bakersdozen

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2634
  • Thanked: 218 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Olathe, Kansas
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 05:48:29 am »
Here is a link to a very informative article written by Jennifer Berry.  It appeared in the October, 2017 issue of Bee Culture magazine.  http://www.beeculture.com/oxalic-better-way/
Jennifer explains the different methods of OA application, how to apply them, and states that she uses the dribble method.  She also gives a brief history of how she learned about OA and how Brushy Mountain is the only authorized distributor of OA for use on honey bees.
The following users thanked this post: Les

Offline rober

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 844
  • Thanked: 38 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2018, 10:35:02 am »
I'm still reading up on this. there's a lot to absorb. anything by Jennifer berry is always a good read, thanks baker. so what i'm getting so far is that for a dribble the O.A. needs to be mixed with 50/50 sugar syrup. it's not effective when mixed with just water. does this table look like the one to use? I've found several different versions online.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-treatment-table/
 

Offline Les

  • Forum Supporter
  • Gold Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 1163
  • Thanked: 89 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Kingston, NY
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2018, 12:31:56 pm »
I have a vaporizer and have used it several times.  One of my concerns is finding a day when the temperatures are not too hot.  Here in NYS it seems that the leap from Winter to Spring is always extreme.  We can be 30 degrees one day and 85 degrees two days later.  Our Springs never seem to be a gradual warm up.  Another issue is I hesitate vaping too soon coming out of winter because the bee population is at it's lowest. I don't want to vap the bees when they are at the end of their life and kill some of them off  before the new bees hatch.   I know vaping does tend to kill off some bees but if you don't do it early enough, than you don't catch the mites before they are sealed off with the larva.  Perhaps the drizzle method would eliminate some of my concerns?
Last fall after the supers were off, I used Formic Acid because I know it can get the mites even when they are sealed in with the larva.  I did like the results I got as far as dead the mite count.

Offline neillsayers

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1731
  • Thanked: 153 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 04:43:42 pm »
I'm still reading up on this. there's a lot to absorb. anything by Jennifer berry is always a good read, thanks baker. so what i'm getting so far is that for a dribble the O.A. needs to be mixed with 50/50 sugar syrup. it's not effective when mixed with just water. does this table look like the one to use? I've found several different versions online.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-treatment-table/

That's the one. Drizzle is a commonly used method of application in UK and Europe. Pretty sure I found some vids on Youtube before but I don't recall the names to search for.
Neill Sayers
Herbhome Bees
USDA Zone 7a

Offline rober

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 844
  • Thanked: 38 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 07:15:47 pm »
I made a vaporizer & bought some syringes at a local feed store a few days ago so i'm covered both ways. I've yet to treat with O.A.. it's supposed to be in the 60's tomorrow so I'm going to try both methods & compare the results once I feel confidant that I have the proper recipes.

Offline rober

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 844
  • Thanked: 38 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2018, 12:19:28 pm »
what is the time frame to be considered fresh enough for drizzling? I have a batch that is 10 days old, has been kept cool, is not cloudy, shows no signs of separation or the that the crystals are reforming.

Offline apisbees

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3564
  • Thanked: 302 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Vernon B.C.
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2018, 10:51:01 pm »
All the recommendations I have heard has been to only mix what is needed and to use it up right away. Oxalic acid is so cheep I would not take a chance. it is not like other treatments that can cost 5 to 10 bucks a treatment per hive.
Honey Judge, Beekeeping Display Coordinator, Armstrong Fair and Rodeo.

Offline rober

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 844
  • Thanked: 38 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2018, 12:02:05 pm »
I wasn't so much concerned with cost as convenience. i'll make a new batch.

Offline Bakersdozen

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2634
  • Thanked: 218 times
  • Gender: Female
  • Location: Olathe, Kansas
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2018, 05:35:41 pm »
rober, I did a drizzle this afternoon on newly installed bee packages.  Some well respected local beekeepers talked about doing this before our local bee club.  There were finding mites in packages and this got them off to a great start.   I also found this article by Randy Oliver.  http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-dribble-tips/  This is a section I found particularly interested.
"Alternatively, although you could directly treat bees in a package, I’d suggest installing them normally, and then treating them in the hive between Days 5 and 7 after installation.  The timing is due to the fact that even if the queen starts laying eggs the day after installation, it wouldn’t be until Day 9 that the first brood would be of suitable age for mite invasion.  Oxalic dribble kills mites for roughly 3 days after application.  Thus, if you dribble the recently-installed package on Day 6, the full effect of the treatment will have taken place prior to the first opportunity for the mites to hide in the brood.

You can also use this method with shook swarms, or for any divide made without brood."
This happens to be DAY 8 since installing the packages.  There was no sealed brood. So I was still within the acceptable time frame.

 

Offline rober

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 844
  • Thanked: 38 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: arnold, mo
Re: Oxalic Acid Drizzle
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2018, 08:30:18 pm »
Jennifer berry followed up on randy oliver's studies at her university bee yard & got some commercial keepers involved too. both she & oliver mention that the drizzle shortens the bee's lifespan. in march that would not concern me too much .I wonder though & no one mentioned whether this could shorten the queen's life. Jennifer also mentions spraying packages with a pump sprayer before installing them. 1st she puts them in a dark & cool spot so they'll cluster. then she sprays them with sugar syrup so they'll full the next day when she sprays them with the acid mix & not eat that.