Worldwide Beekeeping
Worldwide Beekeeping Resource Library => Honey, Bee Forage; Nectar & Pollen Sources => Topic started by: Les on June 12, 2015, 05:25:29 pm
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I pride myself on not using any harmful pesticides, herbicides etc on our little piece of heaven. However, reality struck yesterday when I went to Home Depot. As I passed through the nursery area, I looked down at a big pot of White Salvia (bee magnet BTW) and I noticed there were several honey bees on the plant doing their thing. Within a 2 second thought C:-),I went from gee, "I wonder if they are my bees "(we live less than a mile away from HD, to OMG they are feeding on HD nasty chemical treated plants!" Then I thought, "oh crap, you are less than two miles from Lowe's and two other nurseries". Where the heck has my head been? It never dawned on me that my bees were quite probably visiting these places. Just goes to show, no matter how hard you try to do the right thing, blah, blah. :'(
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Not much you can do about something like that. Like G3 says, Bees are Bees and will do as they please. Jack
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Ouch... as stated, not much you can do about it.. rotate out the OLD comb, five ish years old etc so any build up from that stuff doesnt cause brood problems.
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Siiiigh... Wish I had the perfect answer for ya Les... we live in one of the residential area's in town, and I know that there are pesticides and herbicides all around me. But the thing that really got me last year, was when I was doing inspections on my three hives. It had been a couple weeks or so since the last inspection, we were in a terrible drought. I pulled up RED capped honey! I was befuddled and posted pics. It was LzyBkpr that said my bees were getting their nectar from hummingbird feeders with red dye in them. So Now... We can't eat this fake honey, we can't sell this fake honey. I was disgusted!
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs16.postimg.cc%2Fnlougnqip%2FDSCF0802_Copy.jpg&hash=acfecc89e5579f47103ddfc708a552d8a330b204) (http://postimg.cc/image/nlougnqip/)
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And just think how much work they have to do to dry that hummingbird stuff. Yes, bees get what they can where they can.
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Yep, and I sympathize with Les ;)
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One would have to own many, many acres to keep their bees on their property. All of us, are keeping bees in a universal environment. Using universal in its mathematical sense. Meaning that we keep bees that roam a minimum of a four mile diameter circle and can range up to a six or eight mile diameter circle. That makes the bees universe approximately from 12 to 50 square miles. There are more than 12 square miles in a two mile radius circle. Do you know what is happening and being grown on 12 square miles? No!
My bees are one-half mile from a small town of 2,000 people and surrounded by farmers fields. I try to educate my farmers into only spraying in the afternoon, but in reality, it's their crops, their time and money, and they spray whatever, whenever they wish. I think most of them are willing associates and help with the beekeeping, but Lowes and Walmart type folks just follow the corporate manuals and instructions.
As beekeepers, we need to keep on spreading the word and keep on spreading the word and ..............
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Lazy Shooter you are so right......we do not live in a vacuum, so we just have to make the best of it. Rotating the comb is a definite or move out to nowhere and that is not going to happen.
Jen I have read articles about the red honey before. I beat up on everyone when I see they are using red nectar. I am even so bold to tell people in stores when I see them buying a feeder with the red crap. The best we can do is educate people. My friends on Facebook are probably so sick of my preaching about Roundup, red hummer food and on and on.
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And so after finding the red dye in my hives.. I happen to be in walmart to buy some bird food.. and what is on the shelf right in front of my face? Gallon jugs of red dyed hummer food for $2.
Needless to say my face was as red as those gallons jugs. I was ready to take on corporate walmart. Still am, just have to plan my fight. Like, maybe I could go into our store, grab a 10 gallon trash can from their shelves, and open all those jugs of red chemical into the trash can, put a lid on it with a note it! Stop Killing Our Birds and Bees!
I would get termed a tree hugger probably, but Frankly Scarlett...
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Jen, you would get arrested. I have often thought about subtling putting post it notes on the bottles of Round up, that would work for the red stuff too! Hmmm we have a printer right around the corner, perhaps he could do a stack of post it notes with messages already printed on them, saying don't buy the stuff and why. I see a short trip around the block for me.
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Love that idea! ;D
And ya know what Les? I'm a rule breaker. A night in the Jail House Rock would only add to my very colorful wiser years. And Hey! I wouldn't have to cook that night :D
So let me know how you are going to phrase your sticky notes..
I think for red hummer food bottles.. hmmm.. maybe something like this:
"This red dye sugar syrup kills hummingbirds, honey bees, and bats. MAKE YOUR OWN! one cup of boiling water, add 1/4 cup sugar, stir for one minute, let cool, feed hummers"
What do ya think? :eusa_think:
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Jen......perfect!
Roundup ..... This kills, pollinators and who knows what else. Use this product and you are poisoning Mother Earth. Every little bit of change can turn into an avalanche of change!
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My home and hives are in an agricultural reqion. Two and three months ago It was Avocado and citrus flowering around me. Presently, I'm surrounded by flowering sunflowers. Next month it will be flowering cotton. And so goes the story, progressing from one season to the next. I wish I could call my honey "organic" honey, but it would simply be untrue. How often I see the spray planes flying their rounds over these fields. Fortunatley, most of the spraying is done before the bees start their day's work, but sill, I can't say my bees stay away from these fields.
There are plenty of trees and weeds that are not sprayed, and I can see and hear the bees working them with great energy (presently it's the Tipuana), but , unfortunately, there's no way in the agricultural area that surrounds me to avoid sprayed fields. It's hopeless and I'm helpless.
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I like it Les ;D Then you gotta give them an alternative, or they will just buy it cause they don't know what else to do?
What do you about pesky weeds n'such Les?
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And so after finding the red dye in my hives.. I happen to be in walmart to buy some bird food.. and what is on the shelf right in front of my face? Gallon jugs of red dyed hummer food for $2.
Needless to say my face was as red as those gallons jugs. I was ready to take on corporate walmart. Still am, just have to plan my fight. Like, maybe I could go into our store, grab a 10 gallon trash can from their shelves, and open all those jugs of red chemical into the trash can, put a lid on it with a note it! Stop Killing Our Birds and Bees!
I would get termed a tree hugger probably, but Frankly Scarlett...
Just be sure and call the tv news before you do. They'd love it and it would get the word out. And maybe Walmart would quit selling it to appear more "green" on TV.
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I watched a small tractor operator absolutely covered in plastic with what had to be a world war II gas mask driving down the sidewalk along a series of fruit tree fields today. His suit was white with whatever he was spraying and the tractor and the sprayer were completely covered as well. People on the sidewalk had to move out of the way to let him pass. I wonder what the fella driving the tractor was thinking about what they were thinking? >:(
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Jen,
I usually just pull them out! I have used the old cider vinegar, salt and dawn soap recipe when desperate but it does not work on all weeds. My property borders right up to the woods. We have a chain link fence and that is the line of demarcation for me. If the weeds creep thru the fence, they get yanked. It is a never ending job, especially with the sumac and Virginia creeper. Usually at least once during the summer I go on the wooded side of the fence and pull all along the fence line. But I would rather have the woods than a neighbor backing up to us.
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Les, I use straight up apple cider vinegar, have seen the other recipe but haven't tried it. I think the other weed killer that I know works is boiling hot water poured onto the weed. But I'm clumsey.... sooo :-\
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Monsanto developed and patented the use of glyphosate to kill weeds in the 1970s, and has marketed it as Roundup since 1973.
Glyphosate has been called by experts in herbicides "virtually ideal" due to its broad spectrum and low toxicity to animal life compared with other herbicides.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate
Like Neonics, I am quite in favor of Round up, because it is a lesser evil than what we were using. Also like Neonics, I do not claim it is "good" Only, that it is less bad...
I spray my fence lines, around my hives, my driveway etc with Roundup. My fields are sprayed with roundup....
My personal belief, is that because I do not use fluvalinate, coumophos, and other insecticides INSIDE of my hives to try to kill a little insect on a big insect, I have less problems with reactions between chemicals and less dead hives. By rotating out OLD comb, I minimize the risk of toxic combination between roundup and the neonics.. It gives me the ability to save my bees, an ability we did not have 35 years ago.. 35 years ago.. we had dead hives. it was just the way it was.. we split and rebuilt.
I have considered actually spraying the bees themselves with Roundup.. the purpose would be to make them Roundup resistant... but I am afraid Monsanto would then make me pay for my own bees...
Seriously though... if we can build mites that are resistant to our treatments, why cant we make bees that are resistant to the chems that build up in the hives?
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Nice education Scott, Thanks! It does make me stop and think. However, I will leave Round Up in the store.. ;)
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My son has a master's degree in entomology, and he hangs out with a bunch of agriculture folks. It is his opinion, that today's world cannot be fed using organic methods. He thinks the modern day chemicals are necessary. I don't know enough about life science to agree or disagree. He is just one opinion, but I do know that he tells me the truth as he understands it.
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I guess I am with Jen, the Roundup will stay on the shelf in the store. My contribution to help the critters in this chemical ridden world,is a small oasis called my lawn and garden. When Mother Earth gets so sick and tired, I think she will vomit all of us humans into extinction by some type of catastrophic event. We have been here such a short period of time in comparison to the age of this planet and in that short time we have been successful in destroying the natural rhythm of nature. We spray to kill one insect or weed and then the insect that survives on that insect or weed dies off because it has nothing to eat. A perfect example is the Monarch butterfly. We take out all the hedgerows with Roundup so there is no milkweed. No milkweed, no Monarch. One by one, the pollinaters will disappear. So are we going to do what the Chinese do, hand pollinate? Do you think that tactic will feed the world? I highly doubt it! Okay, I'll get off my soap box now :bee:
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I have not seen a hedge row, Fence row, valley or bottom sprayed with round up in better than ten years.
I would be happy to give up round up completely if someone would volunteer to clear/weed/cut about seventeen miles of fence row, 7 outyards, and two driveways over 100 yards long each, 12 outbuildings including the grain bins..... As well as nearly 400 acres of fields.. Perhaps we should quit planting cover crops and let the fields erode instead? or is it better to plant the cover crops and then burn them down with round up when its time to plant? Erosion used to be the biggest concern, thats not the problem now, but it could be again...
I see the fish coming back, the eagles are back, the hawks etc, we can eat the rabbits, squirrels and deer again, in fact the critters are so plentiful they have become a danger and a nuisance. Is that how we tell how awful roundup is?
Thirty years ago there were no rabbits, few squirrels, no dear, no eagles or hawks. Occasionally we saw buzzards, now we cant look out the window without seeing one of those species.. GEESE! There were no geese here when I grew up... now there are tens of thousands. EVERY day I run them off my pond.. HUNDREDS of them...
AGAIN, I state, that I do not claim Roundup is good, but I also do not see the ill effects of 43 years of using Roundup. Instead, I see native grasses and flowers returned. I see the local wildlife returned, I see FISH in the creeks, ponds and rivers again, and we can eat those too..
Hummingbird food? As far as I know its not poisonous to the bees, it is only objectionable to us, and its not the hummingbird food thats the problem, its PEOPLE who put it out in feeders that leak, or are not designed to keep bees out and let hummingbirds in.
I am not beyond making those feeders vanish and leaving a brand new one in its place.
I wont argue any more, or revisit, I just ask that everyone looks at both sides of the coin before declaring it real, or counterfeit. Help find the solution, and getting rid of neonics, round up etc will be a piece of cake.
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Scott, i think you are a perfectionist, one who wants his lands to look perfect and groomed. I've seen pictures. I can dig that :) And I will be the first to admit that I know nothing about how to make acres of land beautiful and managable. My little paradise in 1/4 of an acre. I can manage my weeds with cider vinegar.
I want you to know that I'm not challenging you on your uses of chemicals, just the simple air we breath has man made chemicals in it now. In my world of healing, people come to me asking for alternative ways to help them feel better. This would be the fight against pharmaceuticals... or shall I say the medical misuse of pharmaceuticals.
A cut from Wiki- Round Up-Glyphosate
Glyphosate was quickly adopted by farmers, even more so when Monsanto introduced glyphosate-resistant crops, enabling farmers to kill weeds without killing their crops. In 2007, glyphosate was the most used herbicide in the United States agricultural sector, with 180 to 185 million pounds (82,000 to 84,000 tonnes) applied, and the second-most used in home and garden market where users applied 5 to 8 million pounds (2,300 to 3,600 tonnes); in addition, industry, commerce, and government applied 13 to 15 million pounds (5,900 to 6,800 tonnes).[4] With its heavy use in agriculture, weed resistance to glyphosate is a growing problem. While glyphosate and formulations such as Roundup have been approved by regulatory bodies worldwide and are widely used, concerns about their effects on humans and the environment persist.[5]
It is just alarming to me the volume of Round Up that is used in the world.
With Great Respect, Jen ;)
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hummingbird food?..............
so you can tell the difference in your supers (or brood boxes) from the red stuff, because it's red, and blame all who carry it, and blame all who use it? but can you see the hummingbird food collected in your supers made from a sugar solution that was used (like we feed our bees with) or maybe a nearby beekeeper that is open feeding their bees with sugar syrup???
my point is, it is not the hummingbird food made and sold by walmart or other stores, or the self made with sugar that many of us mix up, (clear)(including me), it's the LACK OF NATURAL FORAGE for our bees and that our bees are bringing ALL hummingbird 'food' back in areas of dearth. not just the red stuff we can identify by its color. lack of forage, this is why they are bringing it back! there is little to nothing else for them or more prevalent for them to forage on!
we can harp all we want about the red hummingbird food, and we can harp on our neighbors, but the fact is, it is not the red hummingbird food, and it's not what our neighbors feed the hummers......... it's lack of natural forage for our bees!!!
pesticides, herbicides.......roundup?
roundup, imho, is really not something we need to get all wound up about as much as we do. compared to other things i have seen used. it can be safely used with common sense, but then some folks have no common sense.
neonics?
i think we all ought to consider what was being used, and is being used in states like north dakota for the air spraying of crops and the pesticides used.........not saying it's right, just saying some chemicals are worse than others and we need to be cognizant of it. it's not going to stop.
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https://youtu.be/s_ArGvtEgpE
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Man made chemicals?? Let's see...... Penicillin, salk vaccine, smallpox vaccine, aspirin?? We're painting with a mighty wide brush when we downgrade man made chemicals, aren't we?
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Iddee... You know I'm not talking about penicilin and aspirin and vaccines!
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an excellent and thought provoking video les. thank you. i have seen this video before.
in the context of the topic of this thread.........
i would like to think that we as beekeepers are more aware of our environments than most folks are, and environmental impacts. maybe some are, maybe some are not. maybe some care, maybe some don't. as beekeepers i think over time we pick and choose our battles, because there are great ones out there and i think most of us do our best. pests, mites, diseases, lack of forage, lack of pollen, herbicides and pesticides, neonics. a great demand for honey bees (nucs and packages) and a great demand for queens.
can we fix it? not sure.
bees are, and all things that live and breathe on this planet:
to the video:
alive, home, complex, beautiful, finite.
are they hurting? of course they are.
if we as good stewards of our land and our bees; look after what we have and appreciate, teach others and educate, be diligent about our management practices, educate ourselves, be cognizant of mites, diseases, pests, and chemicals and the combs in our boxes, and the homes we provide them with and they live in, and the surrounding environment our bees live in ....... perhaps we can contribute in a small way to our bees better health and well being in the future. yes?
what affects one affects all, from the smallest insect to all of the birds, the deer, bear and moose and other wild animals, and the crustaceans, insects and fish in our rivers, lakes and streams.
we can't fix everything.
i am a great lover of the outdoors as many of us are. i am a fisher, i am a beekeeper, a gardener. i am observant of many insects, butterflies, bird, fowl and raptor species and all wild animals in the waters and on the land in my local area. i know what affects them and what doesn't. i am familiar with the trees, plants, berry bushes and obnoxious/noxious weeds that grow wild on my land, native and non native. i know what my farmers are growing and what they are growing and treating their crops with.
we work hard on our land, the forest, the wet land and the river that was mined and stripped in years past to bring back what was and might be. it's never ending. maybe someday. i wish it was pristine, restoration is in progress and on it's way, but it will never be the same. we can only do so much.
what am i saying? pick and choose your battles.
the township pres really gets annoyed and irritated with me when i harp on him and the rest of the country wannabe politicians about mowing the dang ditches down full of wildflowers that benefit my bees, not to mention some of their livestock.......... :D
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Jen, I'm just saying people should pick their wording a bit more carefully. Man made chemicals are put down on many forums and in many circles, but it is doubtful that there would be any humans or modern day machinery if not for man made chemicals. We would be extinct or still living like the cave man in remote areas to keep the diseases at bay. Even apple cider vinegar is a man made chemical.
My position is, natural is sometimes good, but if nature gave humans the ability to do better, we should use it. Yes, some are going to abuse it, so we have to restrain ourselves on both sides. We need to look for a middle road when possible, never going to the extreme either way.
There is also importance to wording and grammar.
It's time to eat, Grandma.
It's time to eat grandma.
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Either way you put, Iddee---hearty apetite. ;D :laugh: