Deformed Wing Virus?

[tedh]

Hi Everyone,
   Yesterday morning I saw a bee leave the hive carrying another bee.  The bee being carried was dropped in the grass a few yards from the hive.  I looked but didn't find the dropped bee.  Today I saw a bee leaving the hive carrying yet another bee.  This bee was dropped on the cement in front of the hive.  I inspected the dropped bee and am concerned.
   I will say that I hadn't noticed any problem bees (sick or unnatural looking) in the hive on my last inspection.  It wasn't a deep inspection as I was hoping to start leaving them alone for 2 week stretches and just wanted to remove the entrance reducer.  The bees SEEM to be happy and healthy, coming and going in a good steady stream.  What with my untrained eye and limited knowledge I'd sure appreciate your thoughts.  Ted

[Jen]

Hi Ted, it's too hard to tell by your pic. As I enlarge your pic to see a very tiny wing, it became blurry. But here is a pic of what deformed wing virus looks like. My hive was showing signs of dwv last fall, I was told to do a mite check. Turned out I had over 2,000 mites in my hive, and some pretty sick bees. If it is mites and dwv, better get on it Now!

[Jen]

Oh Good, that's much better. Well, if you ask me That is Deformed Wing Virus. Have you done a check for mites yet Ted?

[tedh]

Hi Jen,
No I haven't checked for mites yet.  I had the impression I wouldn't need to worry about that this year as they were/are new package bees?  How did you go about checking for mites?  I've read powder sugar shake method, method using alcohol, and a method using ether.  I think the alcohol and ether are the same just using different chemicals.  I like the sound of the powder sugar shake method as it's not supposed to kill the bees.  After all, I am trying to "keep" them!

[Perry]

DWV.
Check your mite loads now!!!

[Jen]

Yes, there are those two methods, sugar shake and the ether method. I do mine with the sticky board placed at the bottom of the hive for 3-4 days, then count how many mites are stuck to the board, 10 mites are Too Many, time for treatment. All three methods do a good job. Some say the sugar shake is more accurate, some say the either method is more accurate, and some say the sticky board is more accurate. It's good to try all three to see what fits your mood the best.

Does your hive have a solid bottom or a screen bottom board?

I'll be looking for the link about how Randy Oliver does the math on sticky boards to tell if your hive in in trouble with mites.

Now Ted, here's another thing, I do know that an over load of varroa mites leads to deformed wing virus, but there may be something else that could cause wing deformity that I don't know about. I haven't ever started bees with a package, but I was also under the impression that you shouldn't have mites this year. So, one thing I do know about bees, is that you never know 

Let's see what the other's have to say as well ~

[Jen]

Thanks Perry!    There ya go Ted, listen to Perry! git ta gittin' asap!

I found it! Check this out ~

 http://scientificbeekeeping.com/varroa-management/

[tedh]

I used the sugar shake method to look for mites.  I was shooting for 1 to 2 inches of bees in the wide mouth pint jar.  I found 1 mite.  Good or bad?  I'm thinking good?  I'm also thinking none would be better.  Should I take further action?  Thanks, Ted

[LazyBkpr]

He also has a write up about OA Vapor on his site..
   He seems exceptionally concerned about the safety of the beekeeper, and uses that as his down side to OAV treatment..  but also writes...

   Does vaporization hurt the bees?

Radetzki didn’t note increased bee mortality after winter treatment. Heinz Kaemmerer of Heilyser Technology Ltd. says: “We treated several colonies for 3 months during winter, once a week with the vaporizer and all colonies survived.” “With brood, colonies can be treated with the right amount of OA 3 to 4 times, a week apart; there is no harm to bees, queen or brood.” Medhat Nasr confirms that vaporized oxalic is very gentle to the bees.

   12 weeks in a row?  I can honestly say I have never tried that, but I do treat Spring and fall.  Two applications one week apart are considered sufficient, I usually treat a third time.

   The tall hive I have in my yard was two deeps when it arrived in my yard, and was treated within fifteen minutes of arrival.  Within a month the DWV was gone and the hive was BOOMING with healthy bees..   After treatment it exploded with bees..  There are four supers on that hive and it looks like I will need to add more...   I tested it about two weeks ago, and did not find a mite, so I did another either roll to make sure, and still did not find a mite.
   This is in a hive that I pulled capped drone brood, and found an average of five or six mites in EVERY cell I opened...  I have no better personal example of the effectiveness.

   As far as danger to the beekeeper?   I think I understand the concern..  It takes a little common sense to use OAV..   I do NOT suggest you stick a hose in the hive while it is being treated and try to breath through it..  By the same token...  You need to wear gloves when applying most of the other pesticides that were relabeled as Miteasides. Dont stick your fingers in your eyes or mouth..  etc..  when using OAV don't stand over the hive breathing deeply..    Go to the battery and watch the stopwatch / clock etc.. when the 2 1/2 minutes are up unhook it, give it a moment to cool down. Let the vapor coalesce into crystals..   Lift the rag, pull the vaporizer out, re insert rag and leave it be while you prepare for the next hive.
   I have NOT had any issues when treating a hive..   The problem is, you cannot regulate stupidity or carelessness.  Rather than hold the person who was stupid or careless responsible, todays laws go after the manufacturer.
   I see danger in just about EVERY treatment option..  Even the natural oils some use to treat with have dangers associated with them for incorrect use.   So to my mind, having a little common sense goes a long way toward keeping you out of trouble..  Not that I have ever been accused of having an abundance of common sense...

   If you find you have a high mite load, give me a call, set up a date, I will treat a hive to show you how it works and send you home with my vaporizer to treat your hive. 

   You posted while I was typing..    I have never done that type of check so do not know the efficiency.....    Hopefully someone on here has, and does,and can give better advice.

[Jen]

Good info there Scott!

     Is there anything else that can bring on deformed wing virus besides a heavy mite load?

[LazyBkpr]

AFAIK it is transferred by the mites, not the bees.. obviously if they have it, they cant fly or drift to other hives..   
   I will say, that up to three weeks after the first treatment of the heavily infested hives I still had crawlers..  I imagine they continue their in hive duties until it comes time to go out foraging, where they find themselves at a disadvantage.. and so, set out on the long trek to find nectar and pollen on FOOT....

[Jen]

 Scott- "and so, set out on the long trek to find nectar and pollen on FOOT....   

      Awe Geeez! That's just a little heart breaking..

      Would be good food for birds and lizards ~

[tedh]

I've got to say this has me at least a little freaked out.  The sugar shake was hard on me, trying to shake 1 to 2 inches of bees into a jar?  Took 3 frames.  Most bees landed on the ground, all disoriented and a little pissed.  I tried to "scoop" them from the frame into the jar, but only succeeded in rolling bees and crushing comb.  Shake them like a martini?  That had to hurt!  Release the bees?  Poor little buggers trying to fly caked in powdered sugar!  Man it was terrible.  If it was hard on me to do and watch, I can only imagine how it was for the bees.  How do others get bees into a jar for testing?  That, and I think in future I'll opt out for either ether or alcohol.  Probably ether.  That's what Scott does, so I'll follow suit.  At least I won't have to lay in bed wondering if they survived.  I was glad to see only one mite, but what could cause the deformed wing I found?  AFAIK?  What's that?  A little bummed in Iowa, Ted

[Perry]

Hey Ted:
When I have to do alcohol washes as part of my inspection duties, here's how I do it.
Get your stuff together. Measuring cup, tupperware container, windshield washer fluid (or whatever you are going to use).

Find a frame with open brood on it, preferably just before capping stage. Make sure the queen is not on that frame!
Shake the bees in one motion off the frame and into the tupperware container.
Take the tupperware container and thump all the bees in it to one corner of the container, and then scoop up the required anmount using your measuring scoop/cup.
Place the empty jar over the scoop/cup and turn it upside down, and there you have it.
Put your frame back and pour the remaing bees back into the hive.
I have found this to be the least disruptful way.

[LazyBkpr]

Aye, what Perry said works well..  Another trick is to shake the bees off the frame onto the top of the tele cover then just brush or scoop/slide them into the jar.  It all gets easier as you become more comfortable.   No, its not ever fun.. The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few...

[tedh]

Both the Tupperware and tele cover are GREAT ideas.  Sounds a lot better than what I was doing! Thanks guys.  AFAIK? This sounds like a horrible disease.  Anything that needs that many letters must be bad!  Feeling somewhat better in Iowa, Ted

[LazyBkpr]

LOL   AFAIK  =  As far as I know     

  OH!!!  an add/edit here..    DON'T tell the wife the bowl she is eating her salad from had bees in it yesterday.. your life will be easier if you can refrain from saying anything.   Good advice!!

[iddee]

First, cut most of the center of the lid out and replace it with 1/8 in. hardware cloth. Find a frame of "OPEN" brood and, with your left hand, tilt the top 45 degrees to the right. With jar nearly vertical, scoop from bottom to top of frame. About an inch of bees will be gotten each scoop. Use 2 frames if needed.  Roll, twist, and gently shake the jar for about 2 minutes. Set it down for 5 minutes. Gently shake, roll, and twist for 2 minutes. Set it down for 5 more min. After 15 to 20 minutes total, roll and shake one last time.

Use a flat pan like a pie pan with 1/4 inch water in it. Turn the jar upside down and "gently" roll and shake the sugar through the wire and into the water. The sugar will melt instantly and the mites will show well against the shiny bottom of the pan.

Then open the jar and spill the bees back into the hive.

Simple, easy. and thorough. No bees harmed.

[tedh]

Scott: As far as I know? really? I mean, come on!  I did a Google search and came up with some REALLY bizarre sites, it had me worried!

iddee: Sounds good.  Can I leave the hive open for the 15 to 20 minutes or should I close it up and open again after the test?  And I do like the "gently" roll and twist.  Brother, I pounded them.

My beautiful Bride and I were married fourteen (according to her, long, long, looooong) years ago.  Today is our anniversary and I'm going to quit thinking about, looking at, and worrying about my bees for the next 10 or 12 hours.  Spend my day "living to serve her more fully".  I've found that makes for a happy home.  I'll read you all tonight.  Thanks Everyone, ted

[iddee]

Yes, you can leave it open, or just lay the inner cover back on. Many beeks spend 30 minutes or more doing an inspection.