Grass B Gone herbicide bee safe?

[Gypsi]

Bermuda is a nuisance. The only things I am trying to get rid of, with my shovel, seem to be bermuda grass and johnson grass, but if it is toxic to bees I don't want to apply it.  Anyone know?

(I have had zero luck with roundup killing either one more than a temporary die back, and roundup is pretty toxic)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ortho-Grass-B-Gon-24-oz-Ready-to-Use-Garden-Grass-Killer-0438580/100355715

The other one recommended in my Texas garden forum: http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/fertilome-over-the-top-ii-grass-killer-p-1547.html

[Ray]

Here is what I found:

http://www.herbiguide.com.au/Descriptions/hg_Fluazifop.htm

Details:

Poison schedule: S6
Mammalian toxicity: Low.

Acute oral LD50: >2000 mg/kg (rat), Not harmful. [For comparison table salt is 3000 mg/kg]
Acute dermal LD50: >4000 mg/kg (rabbit). Not harmful.
Skin: Moderate irritant. Slight skin sensitiser. Significant skin uptake doesn't occur.
Eye: Slight irritant.
Vapour inhalation: LC50 >5.24 mg/L air, 4 hours (rat) for fluazifop-p-butyl. Not harmful.
Chronic oral toxicity: NOAEL 1 mg/kg for two years. Prolonged exposure may cause liver and kidney disorders.
Unlikely to be carcinogenic, mutagenic or teratogenic based on animal studies (i.e. does not cause cancer). Long term exposure has produced embryo/foetotoxic effects in animal studies.
Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI): 0.003 mg/kg/day.
Other Species:

Birds: Low toxicity: LD50 >3528 mg/kg.
Fish: Moderate toxicity: LC50 = 20 mg/L for 96 hours for rainbow trout.
Invertebrates: Moderate toxicity: EC50 = 20 mg/L for 48 hours for Daphnia magna.
Bees: Very Low toxicity. Contact LD50 > 0.2 mg/kg
Arthropods: toxicity.
Earthworms:
Algae: EbC50 = 0.23 mg/L for 72 hours for green algae. ErC50 = 0.84 mg/L for 72 hours for green algae.

[tbonekel]

Good luck with that! I would think removing bermuda from a Texas lawn is like trying to empty the ocean of all the salt water. I have come to love bermuda. It's one of the few grasses I don't have to care about. Now, Johnson grass is another thing! Yuck!

[Gypsi]

I have almost stripped my spare lot of bermuda with a shovel and shade. It is fine in the back yard, but the front flower beds are a constant challenge, and I have little spare time.  I like the low toxicity to bees!

[LogicalBee]

I used to use roundup to kill Bermuda grass in the south.  I bought the concentrated bottles and mixed it in a sprayer.  They have different dilution rates depending upon how tough the weed (or Bermuda) is.  If you don’t mix it up concentrated enough, it won’t kill the Bermuda.  I’ll admit I am not up to speed on the toxicity of Roundup, maybe it is a bad thing, IDK.  Spray on grasses shouldn’t attract too many bees though and the stuff does dry fast in the heat.

The grasses up here (Northern US) are such a wonderful thing compared to those southern grasses.   They don’t grow sideways, they don’t need to be mowed down to 2” (Bermuda), they don't look dead half the year, they don’t attract chinch bugs, they green up in early spring and stay that way all summer.  No more edging Bermuda off the sidewalks in 95F heat for me.  

[tbonekel]

The grasses up here (Northern US) are such a wonderful thing compared to those southern grasses.   They don’t grow sideways, they don’t need to be mowed down to 2” (Bermuda), they don't look dead half the year, they don’t attract chinch bugs, they green up in early spring and stay that way all summer.  No more edging Bermuda off the sidewalks in 95F heat for me.

Ok, Logic, you got one on us. But at least for half the year, we can actually see grass. 

[Gypsi]

well I had no luck with Roundup on bermuda or on the bane of my existence, goat's head aka sandspur grass.  the shovel and bagging the proceeds for the city to pick up did the trick. Roundup is a carcinogen so I won't use it near my gardens anyways, and I waited 3 or 4 years before allowing a chicken on the lot I used it on.

I may break down and buy one of these or just stick with the shovel and the 12 inch underground galvanized sheet metal barrier.  I do have more sheet metal

[Gypsi]

so my dahlias came up despite not being lifted last winter and being decimated by grasshoppers last year.

I ask on the garden forum what anyone does for grasshoppers.  I mean my solution was sprinkle when birds were about and invite them to lunch, worked on everything but the dahlias.  And the answer I get is nolo bait. 

which causes nosema when the grasshopper eats it.  Somehow I don't think this is safe for my yard

[Slowmodem]

well I had no luck with Roundup on bermuda or on the bane of my existence, goat's head aka sandspur grass.

I ordered some weed killer last fall and haven't had a chance to use it yet, as we've had nearly 7 inches of rain this month.   

It's supposed to leave just dirt for several years.  If I think of it, I'll go out to the shed and get the name of it.  I got it for use along fences and stuff like that.

[LogicalBee]

Gypsi, that’s a downright ingenious idea of feeding the birds to encourage them to eat the bugs!  I never thought of that before.  I have grown Dahlias for the past 10 years or so.  I LOVE Dahlias.  Unfortunately they don’t even have a remote chance of surviving up here in the ground; so I dig them all up every fall.  I used to grow 2000 plants, but now I’m down to about 200.  I moved and the glaciers left me more clay than sandy loam at the new place.  

Digging and replanting is a chore, but I look at the costs vs benefits.  1 weekend to dig in the fall, 1 weekend to plant in the spring, and 5 months of beautiful flowers.  That’s a win in my book.  Plus they don’t cost me new money every year like Petunias do.

I’ve never once had a grasshopper problem up here, but then again we’re not overrun with hoppers and there is a lot of other things to eat.  My biggest problem are the ground hogs.  They are some SERIOUS vegetarians.  :'(   

[Gypsi]

when the wild birds failed (they like to bathe in the sprinkler), I went to chicken patrols for the hoppers, but the hens do damage with their feet in the flowerbed. 

glad to see one dahlia, may spray it with neem oil to defend it.   Groundhogs and moles don't like my yard, clay hardens like concrete around here.

[LogicalBee]

Oh yes, my other major nemesis; the moles!  Modern building codes up here require the septic field to be above grade and basically covered with a pile of sand.  So guess where the moles all like to live.  Aagggh!  Unfortunately the sandy septic field is relatively close enough to my flower beds that the dang moles tunnel over to the flower beds all summer and wreak havoc.  When I water those clay beds, the moles come in like moths to a light. :'( 

[Gypsi]

My daughter had a mole problem  Dirty cat litter in tunnels will send them to the neighbor's.  buried hardware cloth around the flower beds (vertically buried) should stop the migration some. Not sure how deep tho.