Author Topic: Oxalic acid  (Read 29721 times)

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Offline Edward

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2014, 01:48:46 pm »
I have only heard of one person claim bad results but he double dosed. I does take three, weekly doses unless you catch them when there is no capped brood then one shot does the trick. I like the idea that it will not accumulate in honey or hive components.

Double dosing is not recommended, yes you can't have any capt brood or it won't work well.


mvh Edward  :P
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Offline minz

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2014, 06:36:33 pm »
I sent over a picture to my brother in Alaska, he told me he was almost done and cut the dish into the glow plug hole.  I hit some hives that was probably too dang cold to do it. 

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2014, 05:45:42 pm »
As I understand it, vaporizing in the cold wont hurt the bees, but the vapor may not penetrate the cluster, so is not really effective....

   This is the vaporizer I got, the Varrox.. looks pretty good, but is in need of a handle. Other than that, it feels nice and rugged.






   I plan on picking up a timer at Radio shack that I can set for 2.5 minutes. That way I can turn it on and be preparing the next hive or reading WWBK while it works without worrying about it staying on too long.    I do like the ability to dunk it to cool it off so the process is a little speedier.
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Offline Crofter

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2014, 05:59:27 pm »
Lzy; my concern is that if they are clustered it is because the temperature in the hive demands it. The OA vapor will break up the cluster somewhat and I would worry about them not getting reorganized on stores. I have done them quite early in spring and late at fall though, but I did not think they were clustered yet.

Probably wouldn't hurt to hit them a bit early in the day while most were not out foraging yet but some warmer hours yet to come.
Frank

Offline rcannon

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2014, 08:33:10 pm »
Lazy, that's the same one I got a few months ago. I put a sticky board under a few hives in August and had an average of 20 mites/day drop. After I vaporized the first time, I couldn't believe the mite drop. I didn't attempt to count them but there must have been several hundred.
I vaporized three times a week apart, with the mite numbers getting lower each time.
It may just be me, but my bees look better now than they ever have. And they are building up like crazy. It looks like I'll either be making splits at the end of February or they'll do it themselves.

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2014, 11:13:45 pm »
Crofter..  From the heat or from the vapor itself?

  Thats good to hear RC..  I have high hopes this will make a life a little easier!
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Offline Perry

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2014, 06:16:18 am »
I have the same vapourizer (Varrox) and if I'm not mistaken the literature says that it is effective at 4 C and above.
LazyB, my handle is the same length, I think that's all you need?
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2014, 02:38:49 pm »
I'm sure the length etc is fine Perry, I was thinking more along the lines of a handle to protect the cord where it goes in. I can see myself pushing on those cords sliding it in or taking it out of the hives.  ;D  Shooting sparks and screaming like a girl would only amuse the wife to no end.. cant have that!!!!
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Offline Perry

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2014, 05:17:23 pm »
Just get yourself a smoker without the guard, that'll toughen ya up! (don't ask me how I know this).  :-\
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Offline Crofter

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2014, 06:03:15 pm »
Lzy; I dont know which would likely be more likely to stir them the heat or the vapor. At 3C or higher they would be mobile and nimble enough to regroup.  My vision was treating them when they were fully clustered and hive conditions too cold to properly get back into cluster; I guess I am thinking my climate not yours! :laugh:

I want to make another vaporizer about as shallow as the one you and Perry have. Mine is on the tall side and brings it up closer than I like to the frame bottoms. I can make do by shoving a pair of tapered shims in but I want to hit them before I unwrap them. Wont be for another near two months though.
Frank

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2014, 06:34:49 pm »
I think I understand what your getting at, and concur, but I have read in a few places that the vapor wont penetrate the cluster when they are clustered tightly..    It is/was my intention to wait until they broke and were starting to move.. so the question I would ask is what do the bees benefit if you treat them while they are clustered?
   Thanks Crofter!
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Offline Crofter

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2014, 07:49:05 pm »
Lzy; the fog is clearing here! I think I see your line of thought now. I dont have any idea how quickly the bees could break cluster and so get reasonably spread out for equal exposure to the vapor.
I think some of the OA effectiveness is the film deposited on hive components. Correct me here, but I think the mite fall ramps up to max on about day 3 after vaporization; I wonder how much of the bees coat of OA is direct contact with the initial fog and how much is picked up from the combs and spread around by grooming it off each other?

I wonder how much does commencement of brood rearing overlap with coming out of or breaking cluster? Is there a tradeoff in pushing treatment to one side or the other of the window of opportunity?

Sorry, no answers, just more questions! :laugh:
Frank

Offline rcannon

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2014, 08:17:42 pm »
I can't imagine an easier way to treat. Quick and easy and the bees don't seem to mind it at all. About 3 minutes in the hive, plug the hole for 10 more and you're done.

Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2014, 08:21:17 pm »
Sorry, no answers, just more questions!

   LOL, well, were in the same boat, hope you brought a fishing pole. I have the beer!

   As I understand it... the OA re crystallizes in tiny tiny crystals that cover pretty much everything. It doesnt bother the bees, but the mites are devastated by it. The crystals are on pretty much everything, so long as the bees are not clustered, preventing the vapor/OA from coming into contact with more than the outside of the cluster. The mites come in contact with it because its "everywhere" Including on the bees...
   Researching sugar atm, but I will get on this after and see what I can find out for details....
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Offline Crofter

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2014, 09:08:49 pm »
..
   Researching sugar atm, but I will get on this after and see what I can find out for details....

Sugar in your vaporizer? I spilled some on a stove burner the other day........ I dont know whether it would kill mites or not but it made the queen bee a bit miffed! Let us know how you make out with your research. :laugh:

The OA vaporization seems to be working very well for me. I can catch them when they are broodless quite easily in the fall but dont know whether I can in the spring. If not broodless then will have to go the three, weekly sessions but they seem so little affected I dont think it is much of a worry. Not so sure the supposed harm to the hive microflora is a real, or a boogyman effect! :-\
Frank

Offline Edward

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2014, 11:24:26 pm »
The bees have an exoskeleton this helps the withstand the strain of the OA treatment.

The OA corrodes the soft tissue parts of the mite, mouths, feet, eyes, and joints.

Dont overdose or the the bees will eventually bee harmed.

mvh Edward  :P
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Offline Lburou

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2014, 06:53:51 pm »
..........since most folks on this board simply do not have the number of hives to lose in this process then some intermediate strategy is likely a better choice.  that is... once you have obtained some number of hives constantly test and then divide you hives into those that display resistance and those that do not.  treat one and not the other.  use one for honey/pollination or whatever and treat and use the other for selection for the next generation of bees....
This reminds me of an article I read about the 'Soft Bond Method.'  It makes a lot of practical sense.  :)
Lee_Burough

Offline rodmaker

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2014, 11:40:47 am »
    When treating with OA how long after treatment would you expect to see mite drop?
joseph

Offline Perry

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2014, 12:34:58 pm »
24 hours and you will be amazed at what you find. It works immediately!
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Offline Jen

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Re: Oxalic acid
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2014, 02:44:30 pm »
Lazy ""I think I understand what your getting at, and concur, but I have read in a few places that the vapor wont penetrate the cluster when they are clustered tightly..    It is/was my intention to wait until they broke and were starting to move.. so the question I would ask is what do the bees benefit if you treat them while they are clustered?""

I have this to offer. I did an ox treatment on Jan 3rd, bees Definately tightly clustered. Waited a couple of weeks and checked sticky board, 1000 mite kill. I've been checking the board every week since. No mites.
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