Re: Pollen Plugged

[Jen]

I keep saying this every season and then I forget, until I start running into too many pollen plugged frames. Pollen plugged frames leads to no room for the queen to lay. But how much pollen to we rob from foragers? and how much pollen to we leave for the babies.

Have any of you used pollen traps?

[iddee]

Move the pollen frames out and empty or honey frames in. They will move honey to lay brood, but won't move pollen. You have to control it. No, I haven't used pollen traps. Can't help you there.

[Bakersdozen]

There should be pollen stored on brood frames in a rainbow around the brood.  Also bees will place pollen in the frames on either side of the brood nest.  Are these the frames that are pollen plugged?  Do you run double hive bodies through the winter?  Spring is when you want to reverse those hive bodies, giving the queen more room to lay.  She likes to move upward more than she does outward. Don't split up the brood when you do this.  You want to make sure all the brood is in the top brood box before reversing.  If you don't run double brood boxes, I would strongly consider it.
I have a Sundance pollen trap, but haven't used it. It was highly recommended by some local well experienced beekeepers.  You have to be very diligent about not taking too much of the colony's resources.  Pollen is protein and is critical for fat bees.     While I am fortunate to be in a pollen rich area, I have never seen a colony that was pollen plugged.  But we are in a different region of the country. I would do as iddee suggests.  Manipulate the frames. 
I wonder if this situation speaks to the age of the work force within the colony.  Coming out of winter with an older work force and not enough young nurse bees?

I must say that you have a problem that many beekeepers would envy.  That's why so many beekeepers rely on supplemental pollen patties and pollen subs.
Can you tell that this winter I have been hearing and reading about the importance of pollen? 

[Jen]

Good afternoon Iddee... 'Move the pollen frames out and empty'... Do you mean empty the pollen out of the cells?

[iddee]

"empty or honey frames in."
Maybe I should have said move drawn comb or honey frames in.

No, the bees will use it later.

[Jen]

Okay, got it! Because I have found a way to 'empty' pollen from a frame, but it pretty labor intensive, and I do think I learned it from here.

[Jen]

Good morning Baker

1. "There should be pollen stored on brood frames in a rainbow around the brood.  Also bees will place pollen in the frames on either side of the brood nest.  Are these the frames that are pollen plugged?

    Yes and no. And that is the norm for brood frames, they are normal with pollen and nectar/honey thru the honey flow. However, during the summer dearth when nectar has slowed down the brood frames get pollen plugged around the capped brood.

2. "Spring is when you want to reverse those hive bodies, giving the queen more room to lay.  She likes to move upward more than she does outward.

      Yup, I do know about this and my hives this year have already been reversed. It's odd this year because this is the first time I have done the reverse hive boxes this early, in our upper northern Calif weather. Very early spring.

3. "I would do as iddee suggests.  Manipulate the frames. 

     And here lies the problem. All frames that don't harbor brood/eggs/larvae, get stuffed with pollen. I'm talking about frames with empty or partially empty drawn wax... gets stuffed with pollen, Quickly! Which in turn runs me out of drawn wax frames to give the queens room to lay.

4. "I wonder if this situation speaks to the age of the work force within the colony.  Coming out of winter with an older work force and not enough young nurse bees?

     Hmm, I'm not sure how this would apply to foragers coming home with double the amount of pollen than they need.

     In my 15 years of beekeeping, it only been this way with the pollen plugging for about the last 5 years.

[Bakersdozen]

3. "I would do as iddee suggests.  Manipulate the frames. 

     And here lies the problem. All frames that don't harbor brood/eggs/larvae, get stuffed with pollen. I'm talking about frames with empty or partially empty drawn wax... gets stuffed with pollen, Quickly! Which in turn runs me out of drawn wax frames to give the queens room to lay.

4. "I wonder if this situation speaks to the age of the work force within the colony.  Coming out of winter with an older work force and not enough young nurse bees?

     Hmm, I'm not sure how this would apply to foragers coming home with double the amount of pollen than they need.

     In my 15 years of beekeeping, it only been this way with the pollen plugging for about the last 5 years.

3. A pollen trap might be your best friend.  Do others in your area have the same situation? Does the pollen packing occur spring, summer, and fall?

4. While pollen collecting is pheromone driven, a workforce that is older, such as when coming out of winter, would be geared to foraging behavior.  https://www.beeculture.com/a-closer-look-nursing-behavior/ This article talks about the role of the nurse bee and the nurse bee's age.  Coming out of winter, the population of nurse bees to foragers may be out of sync.  If you think about this, you might wonder how colonies managed to come out of winter just fine for millennia?
Were the conditions reverse, too many nurse bees and not enough foragers, say in the case of a split where all the foragers returned to the parent colony, you would have a colony that might starve or not have enough carbs and protein for rearing larvae.  Some of the nurse bees would make an attempt to forage, but that would take some time for the pheromones to kick in and they might not be as efficient. It was just a thought.

I am still wondering if you are using 1 or 2 brood boxes.

[iddee]

Older bees can revert back to nursing and wax making when needed, and young bees can become foragers at a younger age than normal. Nature makes up for odd times.

[Zweefer]

I found that if I have a pollen plugged frame I can submerge it in water for 48 hours or so, and the pollen falls out leaving the wax still intact and useable... no need to get rid of the frame. This is only applicable if the pollen is old, as the bees will always prefer new pollen to last years vintage...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Jen]

Hi Zweefer, I followed your instructions last summer on a frame that was plugged with year old pollen. I told it to our bee club and another lady tried the same process. Soaked the frames in a deep plastic tote for 48 hours. Then proceeded to bang the crap out both sides of the frame. It took about 5 days to keep soaking and banging. Then frames was about 80% empty of pollen.

It's definitely worth it to save a frame of wax, but labor intensive.

Baker, yes several of us complain about pollen plugging. I believe that it's the conifers in our region. They are giant trees that produce an over abundance of pollen.

And I have 5 hives this year. 3 of them are 2 stacks. And 2 of them are 1 hive box. I have reversed the 3 about 3 weeks ago.

[Grandma Bear]

not likely feasible on a large scale, but we have taken some of the excess pollen filled frames and pulled the pollen from the cells with a dental tool. It's used by us in lieu of allergy meds, plus is full of good nutrition. One frame yielded about half of a jelly jar. We store it in the freezer and throw a bit into smoothies on on a sandwich. We are also careful to not take too much of that especially at the beginning and end of the season, just in case the bees end up needing it more than we do.

We have looked into pollen catchers and hope to make up our minds on whether or not we want to try those. I don't like the ones that empty from the front of the colony and the ones that pull open to the side or back have been a bit of a challenge for us to find.

[Jen]

Hi Gramma Bear I would do that with a dental instrument on this years pollen because it would be dryer and easier to pop out of the cells, but it's a different story with last years pollen. Aged pollen from the year prior is thick and shiny and seems sticky. Hence, the soaking and banging it out. Amazon has quite a few for sale. Think I'll read some reviews.

[Bakersdozen]

Hi Gramma Bear I would do that with a dental instrument on this years pollen because it would be dryer and easier to pop out of the cells, but it's a different story with last years pollen. Aged pollen from the year prior is thick and shiny and seems sticky. Hence, the soaking and banging it out. Amazon has quite a few for sale. Think I'll read some reviews.

The bees will add a thin layer of honey and digestive juices to the top of pollen cells.  This ferments similar to sauerkraut and beer. They are making bee bread to feed to larvae.
Yes, Amazon has it available. https://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Organic-Bread-Ambrosia-Factory/dp/B01KEK0NPM 
I know a long time beekeeper that makes a salad dressing or something that looks like salad dressing with it.  It's highly nutritious and good for the gut.

[Grandma Bear]

Hi Gramma Bear I would do that with a dental instrument on this years pollen because it would be dryer and easier to pop out of the cells, but it's a different story with last years pollen. Aged pollen from the year prior is thick and shiny and seems sticky. Hence, the soaking and banging it out. Amazon has quite a few for sale. Think I'll read some reviews.

the thick and shiny pollen is bee bread. If we notice a surplus of that we use the same tool and eat that too. It's tasty and good for us. Several local beekeepers around me harvest and blend it with their honey and sell it at the farmer's markets. I tried to find our tool so I could send you a picture but it's misplaced at the moment...I blame the 4 year old who thinks all things shiny are toys     The tool we use is a little over 6 inches long and has an oblong shaped scoop on the end, very very tiny but it works well for what we use it for.

[Jen]

Gramma Bear, here is a picture of dental tools. I think I can figure out which one would work best 

https://www.amazon.com/ElleSye-Stainless-Hygiene-Tweezers-Personal/dp/B072LW8SQ6/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1QA4YCAKJ6JT4&dchild=1&keywords=dental+instruments&qid=1615923950&sprefix=dental+instur%2Caps%2C301&sr=8-9