Author Topic: 20 Frames of Drone Brood and Wax Moth Question  (Read 16995 times)

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Offline Jen

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2015, 11:29:43 pm »
Cool Yankee  :)  I won't know if my purchased queen made it until Saturday. I've been looking at the ground in front of the hive and haven't found a dead queen yet... holding my breath
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Offline Yankee11

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2015, 11:34:15 pm »
I hope so, but thats a lot of laying workers for her to overcome.

Offline Jen

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2015, 12:00:19 am »
Yes, it is   :-\  siiiigh, I really had no idea what I was introducing this queen into. Geeeez! I'll update Saturday. I hope I have one of those against all odds success stories to tell  8)
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Offline robo

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2015, 07:16:28 am »
I'm curious -- how many people here have successfully turned a laying-worker hive into a queenright hive?  What worked for you?
http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,3865.msg53871.html#msg53871

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Offline robo

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2015, 07:22:44 am »
I think you have gotten good advice on how to rectify the situation,  hopefully she hasn't been released and killed.   

I do find one of your observations very interesting.

The bees were really trying to survive. Laying lots of eggs, many capped queen cells that were empty or rotted inside or half filled with royal jelly.

This is the scenario I like to bring up when I hear folks doing walk away splits and proclaiming the bees will "Always" choose the right age larvae to rear a queen from.   If bees will attempt to raise a queen from an unfertilized egg when desperate enough, why would they not raise one from an older larvae if that is all that is available.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Offline Jen

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2015, 11:32:01 am »
Robo, just as soon as LazyBkpr read my post about the introduction of this queen, he put up the warning that the bees are prob going to try and kill her right away. Iddee follow suit. DARN IT! I suggested running (not walking) out to the hive and getting her out of there. She in her cage had only been in the hive for 2 days... she was already out... Oh Man! I had this vision of the bees being in a frenzy to get her out and kill her, or maybe, just maybe they were in a frenzie to except her and get down to business.

Saturday will tell the story... I'm dyin' here  :-\

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Offline Lburou

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2015, 02:16:13 pm »
My understanding is a bit different.  I believe the drone laying workers in the hive become the de-facto queens.  The bees consider themselves queen right at that point.  So a newly introduced queen is treated as an intruder regardless of her pheromone strength. 

I'm with Pete on this False Queen business.  I shake the bees (initially) and add open brood weekly until they make a queen.  Thing is, once the bees have gone without emerging brood for 4 weeks, ovaries are well on the way to producing false queens.  By then, its almost hopeless and the remaining bees won't live much longer.

Quote
In a honey bee colony that is broodless and queenless the ovaries of many of the workers develop to some extent, and a few workers have ovaries that are sufficiently developed for eggs to be laid...

Most of the workers whose ovaries reach full development lay eggs (about 20-30) for a short period (4-6 hours) only, and also undertake normal worker duties, including foraging...

Sometimes in a queenless colony one of the workers is constantly surrounded by a 'court' of attendants and appears to be treated as a queen. (Park, 1949), from _Pheromones of Social Bees, by John Free, p55

It takes about four weeks for ovaries to develop in worker bees with the absence of brood pheromones and queen mandibular pheromones.  There will be many laying workers in the hive after so long without inhibitory pheromones.  Each false queen can lay from 20 to 100 eggs before burning out as a layer.

The addition of open brood inhibits laying workers, but not as much as brood pheromone and Queen substance together.  Just some thoughts.
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Offline efmesch

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2015, 04:19:51 pm »
I had a laying-worker hive.  Twice (about a week and a half apart) I gave it a frame of eggs and young brood together with their attending bees. Yesterday, a week after the second frame went in, I opened the hive and found a mated queen and plenty of eggs.  What surprised me though was that I found no empty queen cells and a lot of sealed brood.  The sealed brood couldn't have come from a queen that developed from the second frame I gave them, so it must have been that the queen came from the first frame I introduced (about three weeks ago).  But when I put in the second frame, there were still cells with two and more eggs in the hive. 
Try an figure out that one.

Offline Jen

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2015, 04:46:52 pm »
Ef! Your questions are way too hard :D So, I shall forever remain the novice so I Can Ask YOU The Questions  :D 
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Online iddee

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2015, 10:11:42 pm »
Many new queens will lay 2 or 3 eggs in a cell until they get settled in.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
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Offline efmesch

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2015, 02:04:01 am »
Iddee, I didn't think of that but I think you hit the nail on the head.  When I put the second frame of brood into the hive after a week and a half, I had no expectations that they would have already raised a new queen and only perfunctorally examined the frame  for an empty queen cell.

Offline Jen

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GREAT DAY FOR ME! I HAVE A QUEEN IN HIVE#2! HER DOT IS BLUE
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2015, 04:06:25 pm »


I Cannot Contain Myself!!!!  :laugh: :D :laugh: To reiterate this story

Hive #2 was full of drone brood, obviously no queen for a very long time.



I purchased a queen $50, and introduced her, sure that I was doing the right thing. Posted it, and was told that more than likely she would be killed, probably certainly  :sad: Ran out to the hive to retrieve her, the bees had her out in 2 days. I didn't know if they got her out to kill her or to love her  :-\

GUESS WHAT!!!  TAAH DAAH  ;D Six days later, and there is very small larvae


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Offline efmesch

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2015, 04:50:56 pm »
She's a purty lady---really looks good.  You can't imagine how happy I am for your good fortune: successful introduction (against all odds), beautifully marked (a really professional job at that), and laying nicely.   Heres's "cheers" to the successful continuation of the season.
 :goodjob:    :photos:

Offline Jen

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #53 on: June 07, 2015, 04:59:51 pm »
Thank You Ef! I'm Just Giddy  ;)  Now, my three hives are queen right, and my two nucs are queen right. LET THE FLOW BEGIN  :D
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Offline tbonekel

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #54 on: June 07, 2015, 06:39:47 pm »
Congrats Jen!
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Offline Les

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #55 on: June 07, 2015, 08:21:12 pm »
Time to breathe a sigh of relief!  Sometimes things work out in spite of everything we do wrong LOL.  Congratulations and as you said, let the flow begin. :bee: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:

Online iddee

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2015, 09:07:05 pm »
Don't forget to tell the big man thanks. He is the only one that could make that happen.
Congrats, you must be living right.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein

Offline Jen

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2015, 09:59:42 pm »
Always give thanks Iddee, Always. When I started the inspection my heart was a pit a pattering, and she let me see her on the upper med, bless her bee pickin' little heart :D

Thanks Les! Ya know, I was just devastated that I may have provoked a mass assassination onto this queen, then for all the things we do to 'try' and make it right for the bees, and then those plans go askew, it sure is nice when it swings your way once in a while  ;D



 
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Offline CpnObvious

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2015, 10:15:35 pm »
I'm very glad this worked out for you Jen.

What I'm unsure if... Is how can you tell if the bees are trying to kill her through the screen of the queen cage or trying to tend to her?  In the mess I'm dealing with in one of my hives, OR1, I looked in today and there where maybe 8 bees on her screen. How would I know if they were being loving or hateful toward her?

Offline Jen

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Re: 20 Frames Of Drone Brood
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2015, 10:33:07 pm »
Good question Cpn  :) when I first started introducing queens I was told to watch for many bees that are clinging tightly to the cage, or bees that are stinging the cage, watch for their rumps in the stinging mode. When I put this queen in I watched for a bit to see how they were going to act right away. What I witnessed was bees coming to the cage and 'gently' crawling all over the cage, like they were quickly curious. When this happens they will want to bring her food and water.

Hoping there will be some more input on this subject  :)
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