Author Topic: Extreme winter survival (Read 25303 times)

40 Acre Bees · « **Reply #40 on:** March 08, 2014, 06:15:44 pm »

Well it managed to get up to +4 C here today, after another week of -20 C.... Both hives still buzzing. So far so good, I figure the snow will be gone by July or so if this winter keeps up the way it's going. It just never wants to end. :'( :'(

pistolpete · « **Reply #41 on:** March 08, 2014, 09:43:14 pm »

I've had bees for a couple of very cold winters now, with no losses. I don't think that the beeks around here lose any more bees than anyone else. IMO it's a lot to do with genetics. Bees don't use more stores when it gets very cold, they use less, but they will starve a couple of inches from honey if there is a gap to cross to get there. The standard wintering practice is two deeps packed very full of honey. Otherwise, same as described by others. Entrance reduced to 1", top entrance reduced to 1/2" and lots of insulation on top.

I think that adding extra hive bodies is not a good idea. It's better to have two deeps filled to the gills than 3 deeps with an empty frame here and there. The bees need to be managed so that they fill their top deep and push the brood area down to the bottom deep by September. That way all they have to do is back fill a few frames of brood by winter. When the supers come off at the end of August and all those bees are packed into two deeps, they have no trouble doing that.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #42 on:** March 08, 2014, 11:27:56 pm »

I have always thought that bees used less stores when it was colder too.. until this winter. All of my hives went into winter with over 100 lbs of stores.. by the end of February those stores were GONE... Not an OUNCE of honey left in the hives.. Normal winters they came into March and MOST had not touched the sugar I put on top.. by late Feb every hive I had was into the sugar reserves. If I had not put it on I would have lost them all.
If bees used less reserves when it is colder, I should have at least 90 lbs of honey and syrup left in my hives.
I can only guess that COLD is dependent on HOW cold?
30 to 0 they use less honey than from 50 - 30 degrees.. but when its 50 below they use a lot more?

tecumseh · « **Reply #43 on:** March 09, 2014, 07:23:00 am »

some great info here Robo..... and thanks for the pictures.

and a snip....
Rob, for the life of me I can't figure how you make those nucs work.

tecumseh....
well just casually it would appear that any comparison between your own location and Robo's you would have to factor in the difference in humidity and altitude. I would suggest that you need to take basic concepts provided by Robo and then applies these to your own local situation. Tweak the idea... so to speak.

Perry · « **Reply #44 on:** March 09, 2014, 08:15:29 am »

Those look like real nice nucs Rob. The 4 I have are not that strong, but then they weren't going into winter strong either.

Marbees · « **Reply #45 on:** March 09, 2014, 09:57:44 pm »

Checked my hives this weekend and found 12 dead colonies. Starvation. No honey left.
13 still alive, and received 1 kg of sugar each to stay alive till next Friday when they'll get patties.
Had three 3 deep hives that "burned" the hole thru the middle and died on the top. If I only had some sugar there...
1st yard 5 out of 7
2nd yard 5 out of 8
3rd yard 2 out of 10.
All hives were wrapped, with 2" insulation on the top.
Snow drifting in 3rd yard had all hives covered with snow, and that saved them. Even my nuc, the only one I had is still alive.
Keep my fingers crossed for remaining 13 colonies.

Perry · « **Reply #46 on:** March 10, 2014, 07:49:57 am »

Dang, that's a hard hit Marbees.
Too early for me to tell yet. I went out and listened to 16 yesterday and heard bees in all of them, but that doesn't tell me if they're viable or not. I am going to go out today and listen to some more. Temps too low to open and peek. And if that wasn't enough, we have a weather watch for up to another foot of snow possible on Wednesday! :'(

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #47 on:** March 10, 2014, 10:11:42 am »

Dang Marbees.. That hurts... but is about on par with what I have been hearing around here.. Going to a different meeting tonight so might hear more.
Supposed to be 62 degrees here today. If it makes it there I will be opening and start feeding.. IF I have any left to feed.

Marbees · « **Reply #48 on:** March 10, 2014, 01:14:12 pm »

Never saw this much honey consumed in the winter. Looks like extended period of double digit freeze made bees double the consumption of honey.
Veggie farmer was so sad when heard that 5 of 7 hives on his farm died, he offered me to use his huge barn for next winter.
So in August, after the honey harvest I will be splitting all my hives in singles, and overwinter indoors. Beekeeping journey is everything but boring.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #49 on:** March 10, 2014, 05:26:11 pm »

Man... I know this is going to sound like bragging, so I apologize in advance.. but went through the hives today, expecting the worst....
I KNEW I had one dead, and expected it to die... so after going through all the hives, here, and at Dads, the current count is 1/18 out of 19 I went into winter with... I am ONE happy camper right now.. Did a vid on the front hives, will post it in a new thread after the meeting tonight.. Still some winter to go, but the temps are looking better...
Put the stand feeder out as well as putting jars above the hives.. I have bees SWARMING the pollen sub as I write this...
I'll post more after I fall off cloud 9

Marbees · « **Reply #50 on:** March 10, 2014, 06:50:09 pm »

Quote from: LazyBkpr on March 10, 2014, 05:26:11 pm

Man... I know this is going to sound like bragging, so I apologize in advance..

You crazy, not lazy

I am VERY HAPPY FOR YOU, hope for more good news from other members

Can't wait to see your video

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #51 on:** March 12, 2014, 08:07:15 am »

We've had one 70 degree day, last Monday. I was able to go through one of my hives in the back yard. I found it queenless. I will be checking the hive sitting next to it probably next Monday (weather permitting). If it's queen right, I will combine. Not surprised about losing the queen. I just wish the timing had been better or that they would have had a chance to rear another queen. That hive was my big honey producer and it's still full of bees. When I bent down to put the entrance reducer back on, one of them popped me on the jaw to give me the first sting of the year.

Perry · « **Reply #52 on:** March 12, 2014, 08:33:13 am »

Quote from: Bakersdozen on March 12, 2014, 08:07:15 am

We've had one 70 degree day, last Monday. I was able to go through one of my hives in the back yard. I found it queenless. I will be checking the hive sitting next to it probably next Monday (weather permitting). If it's queen right, I will combine. Not surprised about losing the queen. I just wish the timing had been better or that they would have had a chance to rear another queen. That hive was my big honey producer and it's still full of bees. When I bent down to put the entrance reducer back on, one of them popped me on the jaw to give me the first sting of the year.

Boy, a picture to confirm that would have been good. You know the old saying, no picture, it didn't happen! Chef Unknown might have even had something for you to relieve the pain.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #53 on:** March 12, 2014, 08:56:44 pm »

Too late Perry! The swelling is starting to go down. She stung me through my veil, so I probably didn't get a full dose of venom.
You don't want to see a picture of me anyway. I might cause this forum to crash.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #54 on:** March 12, 2014, 08:58:27 pm »

Quote from: Bakersdozen on March 12, 2014, 08:56:44 pm

Too late Perry! The swelling is starting to go down. She stung me through my veil, so I probably didn't get a full dose of venom.
You don't want to see a picture of me anyway. I might cause this forum to crash.

LOL I doubt that.. Pictures of Perry and Iddee didn't cause problems so your certainly safe!

tecumseh · « **Reply #55 on:** March 13, 2014, 06:48:13 am »

a snip....
Man... I know this is going to sound like bragging, so I apologize in advance..

tecumseh..
"it ain't braggin', if it is the truth"

I would suggest.... no need to apologize. I have long suspect that winter survival is much about fall preparation?

? so if you did or didn't do anything special ahead of this very nasty (and perhaps I should add here totally unpredictable severe winter) sharing might have some benefit to others.

Places like this SHOULD BE where we can share both our failures and our success with the longer term hope that others can learn something in the process.

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #56 on:** March 13, 2014, 07:57:27 am »

Quote from: tecumseh on March 13, 2014, 06:48:13 am

Places like this SHOULD BE where we can share both our failures and our success with the longer term hope that others can learn something in the process.

I whole heartily agree. We can learn from others successes and failures.

In my case, I knew the queen was a couple of years old, but I sure was hoping they would requeen themselves. That colony were serious honey makers. Alas, not a single queen cell to be found. I wish her death would have been more timely.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #57 on:** March 13, 2014, 10:12:35 am »

The only thing I did has gotten me in hot water with quite a few folks.. I put my granulated sugar on the hive when I wrap it in November, JUST in case I can't get into the hives..
THIS winter.. I DID manage to get into the hives in February, which I was beginning to think I wouldn't.. However.. Every hive had already burned through 100 to 120 lbs of reserves and were halfway through the sugar I had put on.
Most years, if I can get into the hive in February, they are not yet at the top. Most years I remove sugar and make syrup with it in mid March...
In discussing the situation with other beeks at three different meetings/clubs (a fourth tomorrow night) and seeing a 70% loss across the board, I can only guess that everyone's bees burned through a LOT more reserves than normal, and those without an excess starved. Those with an excess, or those that were more frugal with their resources survived..

We had about a week of NASTY weather with 50 mph gusts and -20 temps.. We had several weeks of -12 or colder with 20+ mph sustained winds..
Normal here is about two weeks of sub zero with 12 - 15 mph sustained winds.. the rest of the winter hovers around 0, with regular breaks to just above freezing, sometimes as warm as 40... a few years back, in Mid January my wife and I were riding our horses on a 60 degree day.... I can only guess that people have become complacent and no longer prepare for the worst, and this winter bit them pretty hard.

Putting sugar on in November has gotten me flamed pretty good on other forums.. I considered finding those threads and asking those most aggravated by my method how their bees did.. but I will refrain... What I did worked, right or wrong, so I am one happy feller right now.

tefer2 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 13, 2014, 10:57:53 am »

Plan ahead, is what I say. I always put my candy bricks on at Thanksgiving and then wrap after that.
At least they have something to keep them going if I can't get into them.
This has saved our bees numerous times. I don't care what some other knucklehead says.
Flame away!

apisbees · « **Reply #59 on:** March 13, 2014, 11:59:06 am »

4 deg C, 37 deg F is the temp that the bees will use the least amount of stores. It keeps the bees in a tight cluster so there is a smaller cluster space for the bees to keep warm. Temperatures above this the bees are more active and consume more stores. Colder and the bees need to consume more honey to create the extra heat needed to maintain the cluster temp.