Author Topic: Cloake board (Read 6245 times)

Dunkel · « **on:** April 27, 2015, 09:12:01 pm »

Well I pieced me together one yesterday. I went into the hive and found the queen had her on a frame and removed some frames in the bottom for her. I was holding the frame the whole time but i'll be daggone if I could find her again when I went to put it in. I put it in anyway, installed board with excluder and turned the bottom around and blocked the entrance. I placed five frames of mostly sealed brood in the top with two pollen and open honey frames. I then went back and put my grafting frame in with the cups between the brood frames. Any advice for what to do next?

Papakeith · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2015, 07:26:42 am »

I'm in the early stages of wrapping my head around the use of a Cloake Board. I'll be watching this with interest.

Lburou · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2015, 10:51:57 am »

Not an expert with a Cloak board either, but it seems to me that you want to control where the queen is to insure overall success.

I wouldn't expect the queen to interfere with a queen cell until it has been capped, metamorphosis has concluded, and the new virgin queen makes movement just before hatching - that movement triggers the queen to sting through the cell wall and kill the virgin queen before she emerges. Even so, It would be worth it to ensure the queen is where you want her now, before you and the hive have invested time in potential queen cells. HTH :-)

P.S. FWIW, The queen substance and other queen pheromones (the pheromone left by a queen foot fall for instance) evaporates over time and bees use the level of pheromones as a signal of queen health and vitality. If the queen is above your cloak board, it will affect the enthusiasm of the workers preparing the queen cells. Things will work better with the queen below, leaving less queen pheromone above the board.

Dunkel · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2015, 11:54:58 am »

I may go back in and make sure she's not in the top this evening. I just set it up yesterday. I will try to graft tomorrow. I may also add a feed jar and an empty frame. If any turn out it will be bonus. Of course when I do this every hive I have will start making swarm cells

Dunkel · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2015, 08:17:52 pm »

Can't find her at all. Went through both boxes twice and every nook and cranny. They have a queenless roar but no cells started. I'll check again tomorrow and graft Friday. I may give them Thursday to settle down or should I go ahead and graft tomorrow. I can't for the life of me figure what happened unless she flew off the frame.

iddee · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2015, 08:23:02 pm »

I would graft tomorrow. The sooner, the better. I would close the cloake board tonight and possibly graft a frame above and below, just in case.

Dunkel · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2015, 09:12:21 pm »

Genius, I'll install the floor tonight and make up a quick frame for the extra bar tomorrow. Thanks!

Lburou · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2015, 11:03:42 pm »

Quote from: iddee on April 28, 2015, 08:23:02 pm

I would graft tomorrow. The sooner, the better. I would close the cloake board tonight and possibly graft a frame above and below, just in case.

Sounds like experience talking....Dunkel, you are in good company! ;-)

capt44 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2015, 09:45:30 am »

I currently have 3 cloake board setups going now.
Here's the way I do it.
I turn the hive bottom around 180 degrees (facing west) and place the cloake board on top of the bottom box.
I place the top box with frames on top of the cloake board with the entrance pointed east.
I put my cell bars in the top box immediately for the bees to polish the plastic cell cups.
The bees come out of the bottom entrance and do what they normally do.
But when they come back to the hive they come back to where the entrance use to be which is on the opposite side.
They collect on the bottom box and start crawling and will find the entrance above the bottom box and go in it.
The top box will fill with bees.
Make sure the cloake board or sheet metal is in place blocking the queen excluder.
The queen pheromone scent is not spread so the bees in the top box quickly realize they are queenless.
They will polish the cell cups.
The nurse bees in the bottom will feed the queen for awhile.
Now in 24 hours I remove the cell bars from the top box and graft.
I put the grafted cell bars back in the top box which is queenless and add sugar syrup 1-1 on top.
In 24 hours I go back in and check the cells bars to see how many cells are accepted.
When I see the wax being pulled out on the plastic cells about 1/8 inch or so I remove the cloake or (sheet metal) thus opening the queen exlcuder.
The bees can then go down and take food to the nurse bees and queen.
The hive is then a queen rite finishing hive.
I go back in and check the cells in about 5 -6 days and they will be capped.
I then stay out of the hive for 4-5 days for the pupa to develope.
I then move the cells bars into the incubator and cage the cells.
Day 15 from the time the egg was laid I move the cells to Nucs for mating or let the queens emerge in the cages and feed them.
2 days later I remove and trash any unopened cells.
I've had very good results doing this method.

Dunkel · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2015, 10:11:28 pm »

Capt thanks for the step by step. I went in today for another quick look and no queen so I was in a hurry and went with just one bar in the top. Probably a mistake but the bottom wasn't as populated as I would like, about like a strong made up Nuc. I figured I would try again if this didn't work out.
Anyway I tried grafting, my eyes suck royally, late part of forties suck. Wife feels bad for me and I train her on grafting. She said no pictures and no telling anyone in case it does work out.

Long story short 24 cells went in with tiny larvae and we will see tomorrow the out come.

Regardless thanks for all the advice, Lubour The queen has haunted be this evening not knowing and iddee not following your advice ,especially after struggling through the process, kept flowing through my head. The deed is done and the experience had lead me to making some changes for next time.

One is to prime the cups for my ease in getting the larva off the tool if nothing else. and two finding or fine tuning a tool since the Chinese tool I had was screwd up and the jzbz tool was minimum at best. At least for the wife. Almost impress with her by the end as during giving birth to the two big teenaged sons I have

Yankee11 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 29, 2015, 10:41:31 pm »

If by chance the queen is in the top, they won't pull them because they are not queenless.

That why Iddee said to put one frame in top and bottom.

You should know in 24 hrs or so.

Dunkel · « **Reply #11 on:** April 29, 2015, 10:57:36 pm »

Yankee that's my fear but the wife needed the practice lol

tefer2 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2015, 09:30:51 am »

We do a few things different than capt44 does.
When setting up, we move frames of open brood to the top box.
This entices young nurse bees up into the top box.
We then replace those empty spaces in the bottom box with drawn out empty frames.
This gives the queen space to lay in.
We move the open brood in the top box to a donor hive before placing our grafts.
This leaves the nurse bees with nothing but the grafts to feed and take care of.
When the grafted cells are capped (4 to 5 days) we move them into an incubator for finishing.
You just have to be careful when moving them and not bump them around.
This allows you to start another round sooner.

Another method we use is the starter- finisher in one box.
Directions can be found below.
http://doorgarden.com/11/simple-honey-bee-queen-rearing-for-beginners#more-1498

Dunkel · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2015, 08:34:20 pm »

Well the youngest had a birthday so we ate Mexican after school. Then the heavens opened up on the way home. I kept an eye on the radar and sky and caught a break. Sixteen of 24 had about an eight to a quarter inch of wax being drawn on them.

I guess I'll remove the board and add more syrup tonight.

Yankee11 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2015, 09:51:42 am »

You may want to add a frame with foundation next to the cells while feeding. They will need someplace to put wax and they could build a bunch of extra comb around your queen cells. Mine have done that. Makes it hard to even see the queen cells,

Dunkel · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2015, 11:51:00 am »

Will do Yankee. Thanks everyone for the advice. I probably wouldn't have tried this without you all.

capt44 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 15, 2015, 07:38:20 pm »

I never close up my hive using the cloake board method.
When you turn the hive bottom around 180 degrees the bees will go forage like they always do.
It's when they come back they have problems.
They will collect on the bottom box and crawl up to the upper entrance and enter, thus filling the top box and being queenless in a few short hours.
When they start building the queen cells remove the cloake and it will become a queen rite finishing hive.
I make sure the queen is in the bottom box and no where else.
rearing queens is a timing issue.

Yankee11 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 15, 2015, 09:31:34 pm »

"I make sure the queen is in the bottom box and no where else."

you sure about that capt44?

capt44 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 15, 2015, 11:25:40 pm »

Yep my second batch this year had a rogue queen and she killed 37 queens in cells.
I forgot about a frame of brood in the top box and they made a queen. :'(

tecumseh · « **Reply #19 on:** May 16, 2015, 07:14:25 am »

good thread.....