Author Topic: ants and red squirrels  (Read 5134 times)

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Offline ward

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ants and red squirrels
« on: June 29, 2014, 07:54:10 pm »
I purchased my first hive of bees about a week ago. Since then, two pests have arrived. Small black ants were on the march toward the hive. I made a moat out of dollar store plastic bowls with water. To prevent the bees from falling into the moat, I had to make a plastic deflector on the leg nearest the entrance. This has stopped the ants.

Next, I put an electric yellow jacket bear fence around the hive and it was suggested that we better bait the fence because a bear would plow right through it if it did not get its nose zapped first. So I made peanut butter sandwiches out of tinfoil and wrapped them around the fence. Two red squirrels have actually walked on the fence and pulled off some of these aluminum and peanut butter sandwiches. Now I have them paper clipped to the fence. What next?



Offline Slowmodem

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 08:21:31 pm »
Is that tar paper under the hive?  That's a good idea.  I have rubber mats under mine, but they're not big enough.
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Offline ward

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 09:10:26 pm »
No it is garden ground cloth. I meant to cover it all with white rocks. I try to get a couple of bags of them when at Home Depot. It is working to keep the grass away from the fence.

Offline Jen

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2014, 09:31:14 pm »
I have ants as well, but so far they aren't into the hives. Keeping an eye on them. Like your idea
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Offline riverbee

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2014, 10:32:47 pm »
"I put an electric yellow jacket bear fence around the hive and it was suggested that we better bait the fence because a bear would plow right through it if it did not get its nose zapped first. So I made peanut butter sandwiches out of tinfoil and wrapped them around the fence. Two red squirrels have actually walked on the fence and pulled off some of these aluminum and peanut butter sandwiches. Now I have them paper clipped to the fence. What next?"

ward, those yellow jacket fencers do not carry enough voltage or 'joules' to keep a bear out......if the red squirrels are walking along the tape and have taken the baited peanut butter off without a shock, this is your first clue.......sorry!
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Offline Jen

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2014, 11:21:23 pm »
Funny story Riv  :D
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Offline ward

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2014, 07:30:00 am »
I think the squirrels are not getting a shock  because they are not grounded. The wire reads 7000 volts on a voltage tester. I've got my fingers crossed it works. I would like to touch the fence, but too chicken.

Offline riverbee

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2014, 11:39:28 am »
"I would like to touch the fence, but too chicken."

.................. :D
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Offline tmrschessie

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2014, 12:58:04 pm »
You are correct the squirrels are not being grounded.  I used to have trouble with cattle going though one when it was very dry out....put a grounding wire over and below the hot wire attached to the metal fence post. That stopped both the cows and calves...had and 80 acre place with a 10 mile fencer...you can check it with a simple gauge (volt ohm meter) that you use to check voltage. Just make sure your equipment is grounded before touching the hot wire. Tom

Offline apisbees

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2014, 10:08:54 am »
To test that the fencer is providing the shock but that you are not getting the full effects use a long stem of grass hold one end and let the other touch the wire. you will feel the greatly reduced shock. If you think you can handle more, shorten the distance from the fence to your hand. This also is a good for education of how much shock power can be lost by a blade of grass touching a wire.
Honey Judge, Beekeeping Display Coordinator, Armstrong Fair and Rodeo.

Offline riverbee

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2014, 11:04:31 am »
tom, ward said he was using a zareba volt meter, and that it tested 7,000 volts. 

ward, what apis said, true about the blade of grass.
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Offline ward

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2014, 08:00:52 pm »
I accidently felt the shock yesterday when I touched a bit of the tin foil on the fence. It surprised me.

 I had to change the peanut butter to bacon and tin foil sandwiches as bear bait. But it looks like red squirrels will eat bacon too. Anyone have an idea of a bait that red squirrels won't like but might interest a bear's nose?

Offline riverbee

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 01:18:49 am »
"I accidently felt the shock yesterday when I touched a bit of the tin foil on the fence. It surprised me."

well ward, i can tell you, i have hit my own e-fence a number of times and 'surprise' is not the word i would describe or the non disney language i expressed thereafter.......... :D

as far as keeping the red squirrels off the tape and off the 'bait' you place on it......hmmm, well, i don't bait my fence, but given your set up i would.  what i would try is peppering the peanut butter or the bacon with cayenne pepper........the squirrel won't like it, and  bears eat anything, or my guess will still 'bite' the bait with the cayenne pepper on it....
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Offline ward

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 01:24:26 pm »
i'll try the cayenne pepper on the bacon. Good idea. They are not as hungry for the bacon as the peanut butter

Offline apisbees

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2014, 05:27:35 pm »
River has brought up the to bait of not to bait debate.

Bears are curious but they are also cautious. Bears will be attracted the the insect and the smell coming from the hive. They do not know how much work it is to get at them or what all they will find once they get in there, until they have been their once. when you first place hives in a yard a bear will notice the insects and the smell and will see the white boxes and they will cautiously approach the hive. They will circle them getting closer and closer and if you have an electric fence they will be cautious as they approach this new barrier and as they check it out and stick their noise to sniff it they get a shock and back off, the bear will check out the fence barrier from several angles getting shocked each time and backing off. not knowing what is in the white or in your case pink boxes, the bear will abandon it's pursuit of the flying bees and smells. But the bear has learned the boundaries that have been set by the electric fence.

Now same hive same location but without a bear fence in place. The bear continues to circle the hive curiously approaching it and eating some bees at the entrance but dew to the knowledge the bear has it knows if it tares the insect colony apart it will get to the larva and grubs. During this the bear also discovers honey. So now we have a bear that knows what is in the white boxes and as a beekeeper we have discoverer how destructive a bear can be to a hive. Now with several hives less we install an electric fence around the remaining hives. We feel we have added the protection the hives need from the bears. This is where the bear fence hive protection system fails. The bear has already included the whole area up to the hives as his area, He knows what is in the hives, he knows the risks (a few bee stings) are worth the rewards (bees, brood, pollen, and honey).

So the bear is no longer approaching the hives cautiously and the fence wire barrier is not noticed by the bear until he is shocked. Because he was heading directly to his destination, the hive. He will be part way through the fence before he receives the first shock and when he does in trying to get away from the shocks, he will take the fence down grounding it and rendering the fence useless until repaired. But until then the bear has access to the hives.

Lets back up a paragraph.
So the bear is no longer approaching the hives cautiously and the fence wire barrier is noticed by the bear because the wire has been baited. the bear comes along to the hive picks up a new sent something has changer so the bear becomes cautious again stopping before the fence barrier and sniffing and extends his noise to check the new fence out getting the shock that sets the new boundary's and the bear will approach from different angles seeing if there is a way in but getting a shock every time is enough of a deterrent to keep him away.

In summery For myself and with my understanding of bear biology, I put up electric fences if the hives are placed in bear country before the bears get a chance to find out what is in the hives. Because of this, the fence does not need to be baited as the bears will be approaching with caution the fence and the hives.
I don't like the idea of baiting because we are providing a powerful smell that will attract bears and other animals to the bee yard where the yard may have gone unnoticed. I have never baited my fences, or had a bear go through a fence. I have seen the grass beaten down around the fences and fresh bear crap near the yard but never had a bear go through.

But be a day late in putting up the fence and you have to bait to get the bears attention to the fence and that you have placed new boundary's.

The strength of the shock provided by the fencer. When it comes to bears, bees, honey, and electric fencers, we are talking risk and rewards. The bear is willing to take the risk of bee stings for the reward of brood and honey. Once they know the rewards that await them in the hive, they are willing to take the shock risk to get to it also. The 7000 joules seems to be the big enough wallop to turn the bears around and for them to respect the fence boundary's and that going through is not worth the reward. I have heard of cases that the bears have gotten into the hives, so know the rewards and so the risk of a few shocks are worth the rewards and will continue to walk through the fence to get to the hives and the only solution is either lead or moving the hives
Honey Judge, Beekeeping Display Coordinator, Armstrong Fair and Rodeo.

Offline riverbee

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Re: ants and red squirrels
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2014, 01:12:44 am »
my reply to baiting a fence and my knowledge/experience of bears is here:

protecting hive from bears

in short, i do not bait my e-fence.  with wards set-up, i would definitely bait the fence, as i have already said.

give the cayenne pepper a try on either ward, i think you will find they won't like either with it peppered on or mixed in with the peanut butter. 
i keep wild things in a box..........™
if you obey the rules, you miss all the fun.....katherine hepburn
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