Author Topic: end of inspections  (Read 4736 times)

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Offline Zweefer

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end of inspections
« on: September 06, 2014, 09:11:02 am »
it got cold here last night (40's).
Besides the obvious (that's not okay, too cold too soon etc.) it got me thinking -
When does one stop inspections?  Is it weather based, or event based?

Example: after extraction, and once you are sure they have enough stores, one can stop inspections, or once it is consistently in the 50's then you should stop...

This late in the season, what all should one be looking for during inspections (I know you should always have a reason to go in).

Thanks!
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Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2014, 10:54:11 am »
When the temp. is still in the 60F i check for stores, strength of the hive,ventilation, disease, shb, mite load. If i feel good about it, i put a mouse guard on and check them on a 60F+ day in Jan. or Feb. of the next year. After i've done all of that and the temp. is in the 50's and something doesn't look right before then, i will pop the lid for a quick look.Jack

Offline Jen

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2014, 12:31:08 pm »
Good question Zweef, I'm all ears  :)
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Offline pistolpete

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2014, 03:16:47 pm »
There are three important questions to settle before putting the bees to bed for the winter.  1: is the hive strong enough.  Weak hives can be united with stronger ones.  2: does the hive have enough stores.  Add up all full and partial frames in the hive and multiply by 6 pounds/frame.  3: Do you need to treat for mites before winter.   Do a mite count and make the call.  Sooner is better for mite treatments, because you get healthier winter bees.   

Be careful in your inspections.  If you roll your queen, they will not be able to produce a viable replacement because there are few if any drones left.
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Offline tbonekel

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2014, 04:13:20 pm »
Sort of related to this, I did my extractions about two months ago and most of the hives have a full deep of stores. One hive is from a cutout and is a single deep. I've been feeding them to help them build. Another hive is a real "go getter" and has a full medium on top of two deeps. I was going to extract this, but would it be better to just put it on the single deep hive and let them have it for the winter?

Offline blueblood

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2014, 04:36:05 pm »
I do full inspections in the spring and anytime I see an external problem that merits a dip inside.  Otherwise, I leave them alone.

Offline Perry

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2014, 08:02:37 pm »
Sort of related to this, I did my extractions about two months ago and most of the hives have a full deep of stores. One hive is from a cutout and is a single deep. I've been feeding them to help them build. Another hive is a real "go getter" and has a full medium on top of two deeps. I was going to extract this, but would it be better to just put it on the single deep hive and let them have it for the winter?

Sounds like a good plan to me.  :yes:
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Offline LazyBkpr

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2014, 10:31:08 pm »
My last inspection is when I ZIP them up for winter.. usually in early to mid November depending on the forecast..  a day that will be 50 to 55 degrees with luck..   
   Winter prep and treating should ALL be done well before you zip for winter..  I do not advocate treating winter clusters, I prefer to follow Larry Connors advice..  take care of the bees that will take care of the bees that will care for your winter bees.
   I will be going through the hives, cleaning them, removing extra supers etc.. freezing partial frames and FEEDING to back fill empty space and brood area as the queen cuts back on brood in prep for the cold.
   They should have GOOD strong young bees with no mites or nosema and a LOT of stores above them..  I dont need to break the hive down to inspect, I just lift it. I crack the inner cover and pay attention to what they have filled and built.  FEED with Fumagillin to cap off the amount of stores they need..  Pour sugar or place sugar bricks on top.. (Doing both this year to see which I like better.)  wrap, insulate the top with the foam.. then kiss the hives gently wherever there is the least bee poop...
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2014, 09:40:42 am »
.. then kiss the hives gently wherever there is the least bee poop...

 :laugh:
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Offline riverbee

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2014, 01:01:22 am »
been cold here at night just down the road from you zweefer, and a damp thick mist/fog rolling off the river and filling the valley the past few nights. our tomatoes actually suffered some frost.

"When does one stop inspections?  Is it weather based, or event based?
Example: after extraction, and once you are sure they have enough stores, one can stop inspections, or once it is consistently in the 50's then you should stop...
This late in the season, what all should one be looking for during inspections (I know you should always have a reason to go in)."


this is a great question zweefer.

by now this is what i like to see after honey supers are removed: 
like jack said strength of the hive, stores, disease/mite free.

strength of the hive going into winter now:
i like to see bees on the majority of the frames and rolling over the tops.  if you know/or knew that your queen was laying well, this should be evident. if i have this, all i look for is stores.

stores now/feed syrup before october 15th in our area if need be:
2nd deep full, you may see some center frames that are not completely full, honey circle at the top and on the sides extending midway down the frame and maybe just below, that's fine. the brood hatched out and bees are preparing for winter, 'backfilling' a little for the time that's left. with that said, your 2nd deep needs to be the heaviest. your first deep, honey and pollen frames on the outside, this can be checked anytime when temps are above 60.  i check them immediately after i pull supers, these are usually full with a good strong colony. 

inspections:
once honey supers go on, i don't disturb the hive to the bottom box to see what's going on, UNLESS i see a problem, many, many variables, this is why it's good to have more than one hive for those just starting out and also understanding of weather conditions (nectar/pollen flows), your bees characteristics, failing queens, disease, mites, your observations, .....etc.....i don't bother hives by pulling them apart when i don't 'see' a problem with honey supers on.  when i pull the supers off at the end of the season, i do check to the bottom, but i don't need to see the queen or any brood patterns, all i need to see at this time of year are  the bee 'numbers' and the stores.  hope i made sense?
as far as inspections from here on out, i don't do any additional thorough inspections (checking the queens brood patterns), except to see that the bees have plenty of stores going into winter. 

mite treatment
august treat for mites, or after honey supers have been removed, september is a little late for full treatment of some miticides, but might be able treat with other miticides.

really zweefer, all you can do now, if your colonies are strong, relatively mite free, is to make sure they have the stores going into winter.  really no need to go digging into the bottom hive unless you feel a hive needs combined with another.  any problems with hives really, ought to have been taken care of before fall. sometimes it doesn't happen, and sometimes the bees make it inspite of our shortcomings, sometimes they don't.  i do like to check stores regularly, and feed as necessary, whether it be syrup or frames saved for them.  as long as the weather is above 50 degrees, there is no harm in taking a quick look to monitor progress.  beyond syrup feeding, give them winter patties or fondant. in cold winter months, after hefting or 'hip checking' a hive, i have shoved feed in at 38 degrees.  i really think done quickly bees are more cold hardy than we think.
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Offline Jen

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2014, 01:22:21 am »
Nice explaination Riv Thanks  :)
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2014, 11:54:17 pm »
River- do you use fondant or sugar or candy boards for your supplements?
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Offline riverbee

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2014, 11:08:17 pm »
no zweef i don't, i rarely have to feed. i have used  fondant in the past and sugar dumped in, in an extreme emergency, pretty rare, but it works sometimes.  what i do in the fall first if i think their weight is down,  is give them back frames of honey. from deep frames of dead outs or supers with not ideal moisture content.  if i don't have these i feed one gallon syrup pails to get the weight up, and just before it gets too cold, i will place a winter patty or two in. usually 2.  i get these from b and b.  these patties sit on top of the frames, and fit under the inner cover, so no need for shims.  these last for sometime.  i check the weight of the hive weekly all winter.  it is hard to say when to replace them, every hive is different, every climate different. i will also pop the lid to check if i think the weight is lower than it should be ready to throw in more patties if need be, just as one would to replace fondant. i rarely replace these until spring......but i have some russkie mutts, this will most likely be different for other bees.

if you are concerned or if anyone is concerned i would not hesitate to encourage anyone to place some type of fondant on, especially in our northern winters.  when i used a fondant though, i preferred to place the fondant directly on top of the frames in the second deep, shim in place, and not in a candy board.  on warm winter days the inner cover can be popped off quickly with another fondant patty ready to go in.

EDIT AND ADD:
robo has a great photograph here on the forum of shims he uses that are insulated. pretty cool.  i have never insulated mine, but think this is a great idea.  i will find his post and post the link back here....
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Offline riverbee

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2014, 11:37:36 pm »
here is a link to robo's insulated shims. when i asked him about his insulated shims, (he shows photos of his setup 2" sugar shim, insulated and 2" insulation board), he replied "the shims are made from 2" foil backed insulation board.   I rarely ever need to feed either,  but it is a whole lot easy to do if a shim is in place already."   note his comment about how the bees like to cluster in this space, and i have found this to be true as well.

this is a great read and worth placing a similar shim on in northern climates for extra insurance. start with this post and follow to read robo's posts and view his pix:

Extreme winter survival
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Offline Zweefer

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2014, 08:50:45 am »
Thank you so much for this.   
I am confidant they are good, but there is always that nagging doubt in the back of your head you know? :yes:
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Offline Jen

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2014, 09:08:06 pm »
I think one of the hardest things for me is determining when the hive is getting lighter.

And this is new River about putting on winter patties BEFORE it gets too cold. That's a cool idea! I was putting them on early last spring to prevent starvation. I like making the winter patties as well.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2014, 09:44:40 pm »
"there is always that nagging doubt in the back of your head you know?"

always is zweef, and always will be, that doubt really never goes away. we can do all the right things and still lose our bees for various reasons.  i don't 'worry' as much as i used to.  just get them 'ready' and make sure they have the weight needed, and they are healthy and strong going into winter, just do my best, and i know that you will as well.

yes jen, the winter patties can be placed on top just before it gets too cold to be opening hives, just as fondant would be, or as others use, sugar.  ;)
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Offline Jen

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2014, 10:04:16 pm »
Thanks Riv, I'm getting some good input on wintering hives this year. Never knew about all of this the last 3 winters  :)  printed off and reading the Randy Oliver links you sent about nosema as well.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: end of inspections
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2014, 10:30:31 pm »
i like randy oliver.  he writes for american bee journal. scientific, practical and no nonsense, and  pretty straightforward. he does his research and shares his expertise and experience. lots of  great info to be gleaned from him.  his website is a wealth of education and information ;)
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