Author Topic: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?  (Read 10434 times)

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Offline Bakersdozen

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Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« on: October 19, 2014, 12:13:08 pm »
I have been fortunate to not have a problem with crystallization before.  This year has been different.  We have been blessed with a lot of rain.  October has seen the second largest amount of rainfall in recorded history, and it's only mid month. 

I recently read a wonderful in depth newspaper article on a beekeeper I am casually acquainted with.  This beekeeper usually harvests about 19,000 pounds of honey a year. He has a great market in the local supermarkets.  His honey is in a bulk tank and the customer fills their own squeeze bear in the store.  The sign says who and where emphasizing the local aspect.  (But I digress)   The article stated that after he extracted his honey, he heats it to 105 degrees.  Would this be to prevent crystallization?  If so, what devise would I look for to do the same?  I hold my honey in 5 gallon buckets.  This year, when I ran out of bucket space, I siphoned off honey into gallon and half gallon jars. 

Last week, I pulled my fall honey.  I have it in a room with the dehumidifier.  The moisture content was right at acceptable, but I don't want to be concerned with crystallization down the road.  I have someone who wants 24 1 pound bottles to give away at Christmas.  I wouldn't want those bottles to crystalize on her prior to Christmas. 

I was looking at this product from Brushy.  http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/5-Gallon-Pail-Heater/productinfo/848/   It's about time for the Thanksgiving sales, so I would like to have my homework done before then.   I store my honey in the house, so I don't need a heater that merely makes the honey flow easier.  I would like to prevent crystallization in the 5 gallon buckets, if possible.
Sorry for the long winded post.  Does anyone have any thoughts?

Offline Jen

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 12:37:49 pm »
I'll be interested to know this as well. I have two pints left from the cut out I did in July and I'm tasting and seeing crunchies in it.

But then again the heating process will ruin the medicinal properties in the honey ... 
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Offline Slowmodem

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 01:12:58 pm »
I'll be interested to know this as well. I have two pints left from the cut out I did in July and I'm tasting and seeing crunchies in it.

But then again the heating process will ruin the medicinal properties in the honey ...

It's my understanding that if you put the jar in WARM water (120F or so) it won't affect the honey and will uncrystalize it.
Greg Whitehead
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Beekeeping at 26.4 kbs

Offline Jen

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 01:39:25 pm »
I thought that crystalizing was due to a lack of moisture in the honey?
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 02:13:26 pm »
Just the opposite, Jen.  It speeds up the crystallization.  I have some honey from 2009 that is as liquid as the day I extracted it.

Offline Lburou

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 03:59:36 pm »
A believable explanation of the process and conditions that cause crystallization is here.  HTH  :)

I noticed crystallization in the bottom of one of my honey buckets a few days after extracting.  I bottled it and placed it in the sunshine for a couple of hours on a 95-100 F day last month.  The honey cleared up quickly and should stay that way for a while.
Lee_Burough

Offline Jen

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2014, 04:32:42 pm »
We won't get up to 90 today, maybe 70, but I'll bet if I put my pints on an aluminum pie tin that it might clear up. I'm going to go give it a try ~
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 11:07:52 pm »
"The article stated that after he extracted his honey, he heats it to 105 degrees.  Would this be to prevent crystallization?  If so, what devise would I look for to do the same?  I hold my honey in 5 gallon buckets.  This year, when I ran out of bucket space, I siphoned off honey into gallon and half gallon jars. 

I was looking at this product from Brushy.  http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/5-Gallon-Pail-Heater/productinfo/848/   It's about time for the Thanksgiving sales, so I would like to have my homework done before then."


"Last week, I pulled my fall honey.  I have it in a room with the dehumidifier.  The moisture content was right at acceptable, but I don't want to be concerned with crystallization down the road.  I have someone who wants 24 1 pound bottles to give away at Christmas.  I wouldn't want those bottles to crystalize on her prior to Christmas."


bakers, i store honey as you do in 5 gallon pails.  the 5 gallon pail heaters are a good investment. what i do, once honey is extracted and filtered once out of the extractor, these buckets are stored in the garage.  store them where ever one has room.  i put them in the garage, they might crystallize during warm months (i can't use them all) so they  freeze through winter months. i keep one bucket on hand out of the extractor.  i use the pail heater to get it to a temp to filter and pour easily, (use a temp gauge) and once again filter. i don't fill jars of honey and label them to sit around, i fill them as i anticipate i need them and some extras or for a roadside sale.  if any begin to show signs of crystallization, i place the jars in a covered pan of hot water until the crystals dissipate.  you can also use a bucket heater to achieve the same with larger jars of honey, like a water bath; in a 5 gallon or shorter pail. fill the bucket with water up to the shoulders of quart jars etc, put the bucket heater on, put the lid on, and the heater will dissolve the crystals, just keep an eye on the temp. if you use shorter jars, you have to use a rack on the bottom to elevate the jars in the water. bucket heaters are to be wrapped at least 1" above the bottom of the pail i think.

frozen buckets.  it is easier to spoon off the gunk off the top of the honey when it has been frozen, bubbles, foam, whatever made it past the first filtering from extraction.  i put the pail heater on.  as the honey heats up, i will open the bucket 2 or 3 times to continue to spoon off the top what is not honey, and stir after. i heat the honey to a warm enough temp to easily pour and filter one more time into another 5 gallon pail with a honey gate on it.  crystal clear honey, no crystallization and no particles.

like you, i will have upcoming thanksgiving and christmas sales.  i may have enough in a bucket i have in the house.  i may not.  many times i can go through one or two 5 gallon pails for thanksgiving and christmas sales. i don't pour them in advance.  i usually have customers tell me when they want them and plan accordingly and a little extra.  so what i do is take one of those stored buckets prior to when folks want this honey, heat and filter it, pour it as close to the date they want it to avoid issues with crystallization before the gift is received.

this is how i do it.  seems to work for me and my customers have been pretty happy.  sometimes i tell them if they want to order christmas honey well before christmas, i warn them about the potential of crystallization...... we don't know how they are going to store it once purchased from us, or for us, we don't often know the nectar source of the honey, so i like to NOT have honey crystallize on them before they give it as gifts.  i do the best i can.  so far so good and it's worked for me.

i hope this helps.

 

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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 08:46:47 am »
Thanks riverbee.  Yes, that helps a lot.  Thank you. 
Is your bucket heater similar to the one in the link?  This is an aspect of beekeeping that I don't hear too much conversation about.  Maybe no one wants to admit their honey will eventually crystalize?  Newer beekeepers are just happy to have honey.  I know I was.
So, river are you saying that you also use the bucket heater on the outside of an empty bucket, fill it with some water and create a water bath for crystalized bottled honey?
I agree, it doesn't make sense to fill jars in advance.  You might not sell those jars and then you have all your money tied up in something you can't move.

Offline Lburou

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 09:12:57 am »
...... i warn them about the potential of crystallization...... we don't know how they are going to store it once purchased from us, or for us, we don't often know the nectar source of the honey, so i like to NOT have honey crystallize on them before they give it as gifts.  i do the best i can.  so far so good and it's worked for me.....
Will keep this in mind for future honey crops riverbee.  thanks  :)
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Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 10:36:31 am »
I feel strange, but i agree with rb. ??? Where i differ  ;D is that i made a hot box several years ago( heated with two 100 watt light bulbs) with a temp. gage i bought from Kelly's instead of using a bucket heater. I don't use water in it because some of my jars that crystallize have labels on them, and the gage has a temp. control on it that keeps the temp where ever i want (usually 100F to 110F ) depending on what i'm doing. If i'm (my wife) is going to bottle honey the next day i put two buckets in and set the temp. at 100F to make it pour better, this will also lower the moisture content by leaving the lid cracked while heating. I have put honey sticks in quart jars and decrystallize them.I put a sticker on all my glass jars telling them how to melt honey back( like squirt does) when it crystallizes, and that all pure honey will crystallize. Some will say, no wonder store bought honey doesn't crystallize. :D JacK

Offline riverbee

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 12:22:22 pm »
jack, i think someone needs to take your temperature and make sure you are feeling alright, i almost fell over that you agreed with me........ :D

some great advice jack, i do use the stickers you mentioned on all my jars.  hot boxes also work great, and especially if they are already labeled.

bakers, yes the bucket heater looks similar, except the band in your link looks wider than mine?
this is mine: Five Gallon Pail Heater

i wouldn't be without one of these.  i have 6 or 7, 5 gallon pails full of honey stored right now. it's the only way to get the honey liquid again.  i will also use it on a bucket i have already heated and strained, that begins to crystallize.  just heat enough to dissolve crystals.  i have used it to decrystalize bottled honey, water bath method as i mentioned.  you want to be careful with this, because the water must be above the top of the band, i think two or maybe 3 inches (been awhile since i've used it for that). so some sort of 'rack' on the bottom of the pail to elevate the jars to the required level.   
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 01:11:19 pm »
Pail heaters use 100 to 150 watt for Power at 120 volt. I avoided buying a pail heater and built a heater cabinet in stead, I find it is more usfull in that any size containers and supers can be warmed with it. I came across a 24" x 24" T-Bar ceiling tile heater at an auction sale that I payed less than $10.00 for so I have a box that sits over it or stack supers on it to warm for extracting. I have placed my bottleing tank on top of it for keeping it warm. It is controlled by a riostat to control the service temp and can plug it into my temp control box so it will turn off when the desired temp is reached.

Whether honey granulates and how fast depends on the nectar source and the percentages of the different types of sugars. The other factors are how it is stored and whether previously formed crystals are introduced to the fresh honey, even by accident. Putting new fresh honey in the bottling tank but the old honey left in the tank has crystals in it.
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Offline Jen

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2014, 09:22:35 pm »
Hi Apis, thought you fell off the end of the planet there for awhile  :D

Have no idea what a heater cabinet is, got a pic?
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Offline pistolpete

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2014, 09:29:57 pm »
As usual, apisbees put it quite concisely.  I'd add storage temperature as a factor in the speed of granulation.  If I recall right, about 10 degrees C. promotes the fastest granulation, 30 degrees pretty much prevents granulation, but gradually degrades the flavour. 

I heat my honey to 50 degrees Celsius very briefly just before final filter and bottling, this dissolves any existing seed crystals.  My honey lasts about a year at room temp before it goes off.   

Freezing is the best way to store honey for a long time.  Preserves flavour, and prevents crystals.  This is not practical for large operations, but for customers who buy a year's supply I recommend they pop any jars that will not be used within 4 months in the deep freeze.
My advice: worth price charged :)

Offline Jen

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2014, 09:40:18 pm »
That's a good idea Bakers. I've got two pints now that are starting to crystalize, they are from the cutout that my friend and I did in July. Should I put them in a pan of water and let the water get up to 50? then let them cool, and freeze them?
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Offline brooksbeefarm

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2014, 10:11:02 pm »
Pete here's a mystery for you. For years i froze quarts with capped comb honey in them for chunk honey sales, then when a customer calls and wants a quart of chunk honey we thaw the comb out and add honey to it, worked great. Well the last few times we bottled more chunk honey than we sold, i froze it (in the deepfreezer)  comb and honey together in cases. Guess what? yep, about half of the quarts were crystallized solid in all 3 cases??? I can freeze comb honey by it's self and liquid honey by it's self with no problem, but not together? Jack

Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2014, 08:39:59 pm »
I am not that handy and I don't have a place to store a hot box.  I will probably wait until the Thanksgiving sales to shop for a bucket heater.  I appreciate you guys that make things.  You have talent and ingenuity.

Offline riverbee

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2014, 09:20:09 pm »
bakers, that's one of the reasons why i have a bucket heater........ :D
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Offline apisbees

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Re: Two questions. How do you prevent crystalization?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2014, 07:57:47 pm »
A cheap easy hot box empty super with a trouble light cover protecting the 60 watt bulb placed on the concrete basement or garage floor. Above this place supers to warm for easier extracting or place a good wire queen excluder with another empty super and put the pail or jars of honey to be melted on the excluder and cover with lid and more supers if the pail is taller. Check temp often as you do not want to over heat or melt the comb
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