Author Topic: cockshutt 30 charging issue  (Read 7269 times)

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Offline Papakeith

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cockshutt 30 charging issue
« on: September 13, 2016, 02:03:48 pm »
Anyone want to help me troubleshoot a 1947 Cockshutt 30 6volt positive ground charging issue?

Here's the same post that I put up on Yesterdays Tractor

The system does not appear to be charging the battery. If I charge up the battery with a charger I'll get a half dozen starts out of it before it loses enough charge to not do the job any more.

The tractor is a 6 volt positive ground system. It still has a three brush generator. The light switch is no longer the three position switch that the operator manual states should be there but is a simple push pull.

I've pulled the battery and had it tested at the local auto parts store. It tests good and will hold a charge when charged from the bench.
I've cleaned all of the connections on the voltage regulator and the contacts on the solenoids inside it.

I've performed a motor test on the generator and it does motor.

Before I start throwing money at parts I figured I would stop guessing at the issue and just ask if those with more experience could help me out.

I've got a video of the ammeter with the tractor running and me toggling the light switch off and on.

I've also got a video of the VR with the tractor running.



Thanks in advance.

Keith
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Offline iddee

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 03:21:14 pm »
First, did you change the regulator? Has the system ever worked like it is?

When you turn the lights on, the amp meter should read discharge. That says the current is going through it backwards. Is it the loop type or double terminal? If loop, run the wire the other direction. If two terminals, switch the wires. Then come back and we will look for the charging problem.

Before that, tho, be sure the positive terminal of the battery goes to the casting of the tractor. Not to the starter.

PS. I think the original switch was a push/pull with a center position. The center position was back work light only. Someone correct me if I'm remembering wrong.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein

Offline Papakeith

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 03:57:14 pm »
I did not change the regulator. 
The tractor ran like this all last fall and into the spring.

I'm not following on the loop type or double terminal ammeter.  can you elaborate?

Positive terminal is to ground.

Quote
COMBINATION LIGHT SWITCH AND GENERATOR CONTROL - As described on

page 22, this switch has three positions: (a) Full In- Low Rate Charge; (b) Half

Out- High Rate Charge ; (c) Full Out-Lights on the Generator Full Charge, as

indicated by arrow (l). The tractor operator is of necessity responsible for the

correct use of the switch. Remember that overcharging will damage the battery.

as you saw it has been replaced with a two position switch.



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Offline Papakeith

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2016, 03:58:38 pm »
it did sit outside for a couple of months and now we have this issue. I'm wondering if I have a ground issue.
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Offline Papakeith

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 04:02:13 pm »
I'm starting to think that the bees are keeping me...

Offline iddee

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2016, 04:37:44 pm »
That switch is different than other 3 position tractor light switches. Forget the amp meter for now.

Where has the switch been positioned while you have been using the tractor?

“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein

Offline Papakeith

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2016, 02:01:23 am »
We were under the impression that it needed to be lights on(pulled out) to get a full charge rate initially after the start. Basically we were running it like it had the cutout and three position switch in place. After a bit I would push the switch in and run it that way. 
I ran this tractor for hours every day on the weekends pulling hay wagons in the fall . 
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Offline iddee

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2016, 05:40:55 am »
At about 1000 RPM, with switch pulled out, disconnect the positive battery cable. It should continue running. If so, then push the switch in. If it still runs, the problem isn't in the charging system, but rather an electrical drain in the wiring. If it dies with the switch in or out, then it isn't charging in that position.
“Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me... Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.”
― Shel Silverstein

Offline Papakeith

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2016, 06:11:23 pm »
I did as you asked, and the tractor kept running with the switch in and out. 

Here's what I found out.
After I did the motor test I needed to repolarize the generator.  once I did that I was seeing the voltage rise on the battery.
interestingly(and upon reflection not surprisingly) the ammeter started sensing in the opposite direction.  My guess is that the ammeter is hooked up backwards.  so the positive charge I was seeing with the lights on in the past was actually a discharge (as one would expect)  with the lights off I am seeing what I think is a very high rate of charge  15+amps and the cutout didn't start kicking in until over 8 volts. 
I can adjust the charge rate with the third brush on the generator if it is too high.  how do you adjust the cutout voltage? I'm guessing that I would change the tension on the right solenoid. but I don't want to muck about too much until I know I'm doing the right thing. 
For now, I can keep the voltage in check by running the lights.
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Offline Papakeith

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2016, 03:29:56 pm »
I got a call from my mother the other night.

"Hi Keith, it's mom.  You had a phone call at the farm.  A man named Wally.  He said to check the fuse in the light switch before you call him.  His number is xxxxxxxx"

In my mind I said, "who the heck is Wally, how does he know my tractor is broken, and how did he know to call the farm number?"  I'm a bit slow sometimes but I eventually made the connection :D

I was heading out to a pistol shoot; still, I went over (the farm is across the street from my house) and checked for the fuse on the switch.  Then I gave Wally a call while I was on my way to my match.

I learned quite a bit this past week.  Some of it was about old tractors.  Most of it was about the goodness of people and their willingness to lend a hand.

Thanks again.

Keith
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Offline lazy shooter

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 04:14:26 pm »
In the best sense of the word, Iddee is your neighbor.  I mean in the Biblical sense.  I wouldn't hesitate to ask him for help, and  I would hope that the favor could be returned someday.  In a perfect world, that is what "neighbors and brothers" do for each other.

lazy

Offline Papakeith

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2016, 06:36:37 pm »


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Offline Alleyyooper

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Re: cockshutt 30 charging issue
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 09:07:10 am »
Ya'll are putting way to much into the old original 3 position light switches on some brands of tractors. Once the tractor starts the generator should produce a charge. that charge should go to the battery thru the regulator if the battery is low on voltage. Regulators have a preset value of how much current goes to the battery the third position (full out on My Massey's) on the original switch over rides that preset if the battery seems low or working other electric components other than the standard work lights.

 ;D   Al

 
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