Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: ward on March 01, 2014, 03:11:59 pm
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I would like to place my hives near my flower and vegetable garden but I am worried about this. We own a campground and we get sprayed once a week for mosquitos. The place where I want to put them is about 30 feet from the campground road where the sprayer goes. They spray with pyrethroids (sumithrin and prallethrin) These are synthetic insecticides which are naturally occurring in chrysanthemum flowers. Should I be worried about my bees if placed here? Should I place my bees somewhere else? I wanted the bees to pollinate my garden.
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ward, is this DUET being used?.......
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Hi Ward:
First, I see this is your first post, so :welcome:
If you can control when they spray it would be a big help. If it's the height of the day your bees are going to get hit even if they are on another part of your property. Bees visit flowers and will travel 2 miles to do so.
If spraying is done when there is little or no flight, it will help.
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ward, my apologies, WELCOME and thanks for posting your question.
duet is the common chemical applied for mosquito control: google it, you will find many, many articles on this. from duet's label:
"Active Ingredients
Prallethrin: (RS)-2-methyl-4-oxo-3-(2-propynyl) cyclopent-2-enyl-(1RS)-cis,trans-chrysanthemate ..............................................1.00%
Sumithrin®: 3-Phenoxybenzyl-(1RS, 3RS; 1RS, 3SR)-2,
2-dimethyl-3-(2-methylprop-1-enyl) cyclopropanecarboxylate ........5.00%
Piperonyl Butoxide, Technical * ........................................................5.00%
Other Ingredients ** ......................................................................89.00%
100.00%
Contains 0.085 pounds of Technical Prallethrin/Gallon, 0.37 pounds of Technical
Sumithrin®/Gallon, and 0.37 pounds Technical Piperonyl Butoxide/Gallon
* Equivalent to 4.00% (butylcarbityl) (6-propylpiperonyl) ether and 1.00%
related compounds.
** Contains petroleum distillate"
"ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS
This product is toxic to aquatic organisms, including fish and aquatic invertebrates. Runoff from treated areas or deposition of spray droplets into a body of water may be hazardous to fish and aquatic invertebrates. Do not apply over bodies of water (lakes, rivers, permanent streams, natural ponds, commercial fish ponds, swamps, marshes or estuaries),except when necessary to target areas where adult mosquitoes are present, and weather conditions will facilitate movement of applied material beyond the body of water in order to minimize incidental deposition into the water body. Do not
contaminate bodies of water when disposing of equipment rinsate or wash waters.
BEE WARNING: This product is toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment on blooming crops or weeds. Do not apply to or allow drift onto blooming crops or weeds when bees are visiting the treatment area, except when applications are made to prevent or control a threat to public and/or animal health determined by a state,tribal or local health or vector control agency on the basis of documented evidence of disease causing agents in vector mosquitoes or the occurrence of mosquito-borne disease in animal or human populations,or if specifically approved by the state or tribe during a natural disaster recovery effort."
you can find this here:
DUET LABEL (http://www.plymouthmosquito.com/Duet%20Label.pdf)
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oops forgot to post these two links for you:
SUMITHRIN Insecticide FactSheet (http://www.pesticide.org/get-the-facts/pesticide-factsheets/factsheets/sumithrin)
"Effects on Bees
Since sumithrin is a broad spectrum insecticide, it is perhaps not surprising that tiny amounts of sumithrin kill bees. In a test submitted to EPA as
part of sumithrin’s registration, 0.07 micrograms killed honey bees.30 This puts sumithrin into EPA’s highest toxicity group for bee toxicity"
Prallethrin (http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC35755)
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Ward, welcome to the site. Backyard beekeepers often find that bees will fly right over the garden they are setting in and go to the garden nextdoor so some recommend that you not crowd the bees and garden but place the hives 50 feet or more if possible from YOUR intended target. Seems I read somewhere that bees don't have the dance moves to say fly north for 15 feet and stop.
When I lived in Colorado they sprayed for skeeters but it was done between sundown and sunup when they were active and the bees were not, and the chemical used was reported to be safe for Hbees and I never saw an effect on my bees. But I would check and make sure, talk to the people driving the truck about your plan of getting bees they( or the boss) will know if there will be a problem. Jim
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First, Bsweet is correct. Bees will pass over areas close to the hive. Move your bees away from the garden to get the best pollination.
Second, I kept 30 hives within 100 feet of the road and they sprayed for mosquitoes weekly, at dusk or after dark. I do not know what they used, but it never bothered my bees.
Third, it has been reported on the forum that the member reported his apiary to the county and the truck would not spray while passing his house. You may want to try that.
Fourth, Welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy it here.
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Welcome Ward to the forum.
Ken
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The only time I see my bees in my garden is during a severe dearth. They definitely bypass the area 100 or more feet around the hive. I guess they need to stretch their wings a bit.
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Yes Duet is used to spray. They spray every Monday morning around 5AM starting around the first of July. There has been cases of equine encephalitis in our county. We have a large mosquito population on our campground so in the past years we have welcomed the spraying for the comfort of our clients.
Thank you for welcoming us to the site and for all your info and advice. I was wondering how far bees traveled so I have decided to put my hive in an area closer to the back of my house. I will ask the sprayer to start spraying on the other side of the garden. There was an article in the local paper last summer explaining what was used to spray, however, this year they may use something else. I will definitely talk to them.
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All of your comments have made us feel more positive and that we can still do this. Thank you.
Our first nuc of bees is arriving June 7th. We have our hive parts painted assembled and ready to go. We are taking a risk and traveling into the unknown!
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All of your comments have made us feel more positive and that we can still do this. Thank you.
Our first nuc of bees is arriving June 7th. We have our hive parts painted assembled and ready to go. We are taking a risk and traveling into the unknown!
You won't regret it! ;)
Are you starting out with only 1 colony or two? There are tremendous advantages to having 2.
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Hi Perry, We have ordered only one nuc for our first time. Our equipment is: 2 10-frame deeps and 1medium super. we thought we would add on as we go. Ward
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Hi Ward:
I only mention having 2 hives for the advantages. You have something to compare each colony to, as well as being able to boost one if there are issues with the other. Queen failure or loss can be quickly addressed by moving a frame with eggs from one colony to the queen-less one, things like that.
The equipment you have should meet your requirements for the first year nicely. Extra gear never hurt, you may be able to catch a swarm, etc.
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Perry, Your advice is definitely on target. Ward
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Ward they sprayed for mosquitos buy my land and no bees where effected .
You better watch out beekeeping is highly addicting . I started with 2 hives in 2009 and now in 2014 I have 20 .
There's no help for me.
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How do we know that the bees aren't affected? or the hive isn't affected by chemical spraying?
If the grounds have been sprayed where bees forage there will be chemical residue on the pollen and nectar. Just cause the beekeeper didn't notice any visual damage to the bees doesn't mean it's not there hidden within the hive. Isn't this one of the main concerns with CCD?
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Jen, do you not cross the street because it puts you out in the open where lightening may strike you?
If the bees continue to have plenty of foragers and the colony lives through the next winter, for all practical purposes, the hive wasn't affected. You can't go worrying about every little thing that might be. The things that are will give you all you need to worry about.
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Mmmmm Okay, I'll except that ;) 8)
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One other thing Ward. I see that you live in MA, you do realize that you live not too far from Maxant in Ayers don't you? ;D
Be careful and when you go shopping, don't do it on an empty stomach! :) ;) :D
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"Yes Duet is used to spray. They spray every Monday morning around 5AM starting around the first of July. There has been cases of equine encephalitis in our county. We have a large mosquito population on our campground so in the past years we have welcomed the spraying for the comfort of our clients."
if they are spraying this at 5 am and every monday morning, (so weekly) might be concerned myself, rather than at night. i would be inclined to lock them in until any residue dissipates, kills skeeters? an insect. i am with jen on this, "where bees forage there will be chemical residue on the pollen and nectar. Just cause the beekeeper didn't notice any visual damage to the bees doesn't mean it's not there hidden within the hive".
when i read a label that says TOXIC TO HONEY BEES, and the toxicity to aquatic organisms, i start to pay attention, and i don't want this brought back to my hives and stored in the combs, and i live in farm country and on a river, so lots to deal with coming back to the hive, including my neighbors that use all sorts of pesticides. bees get water from where?
also, some of our gardens, perennials and vegetables are less than 100 ft from my hives, the bees seem to find them just fine and always have.
sorry to put a kink in here, but i disagree about this chemical not affecting our bees sprayed at this time of day and bees not visiting a garden within 100 feet of a hive.....
just my HO and two cents..... :)
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As I said above, they sprayed mine at dusk or dark. I don't know about other times of the day. It may be fatal then.
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Not saying bees won't visit a garden close to the hive, my hives are about 15 ft from my garden and I see afew bees in it all summer.
The spray they used in Colorado was fogged into the air and not sprayed on plants because mosquitos are not attracted to plants. Jim
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where does the residue of the spray land? our bees collect water any where they can, including grass....dandelions and clover bloom in the grass, bees collect water from any available source, including puddles in the dirt.
like iddee said sprayed at dusk or dark when the bees aren't flying, less chance. ward said 5:00 am weekly, all i am saying is you can't tell me that at some point this won't affect the bees or won't wind up in the comb... ;D
our gardens get worked pretty good, but we have some pretty large vegetable gardens.
not an expert on this, just saying what i think, and if it's duet, i would be concerned, that's just me...... :)
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Riv ""if they are spraying this at 5 am and every monday morning, (so weekly) might be concerned myself, rather than at night. i would be inclined to lock them in until any residue dissipates, kills skeeters? an insect. i am with jen on this,""
Thank you Riv~
I'm concerned about Ward and his wife. This is a lovable hobby that they should be able to enjoy.
My question now for Ward is where do they live where Duet is sprayed every Monday. Swamp area maybe? Is there another natural solution for them to work on to tame down the mesquito's in their area?
Herein lies the root of the problem.
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They use to spray the ditches along the gravel roads in the outskirts of Springfield, Mo. when i was a kid with DDT. You could smell it hours after they were gone,many times we would be wrestling or playing games in the yard near the road when they came by spraying and we could feel the mist from it >:( They outlawed DDT because it was killing Eagles, don't remember if they ran a test to see if it was killing humans? :o The spray has killing power for several days (the residue) and like Rb said it's the puddles they put the most spray on for mosquito's, and if the puddles are close to the hive and the bee makes it back and the house bees unload her and put it in the cells the trouble starts. I think most times if a bee comes in contact with a killing insecticide they don't make it back to the hive if they have a ways to go. Jack
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Hi Ward, know that I am speaking to you with great compassion because I love my bees and I know that you will love your bees as well. It's the most fascinating hobby I have ever had.
Ward ""I would like to place my hives near my flower and vegetable garden but I am worried about this. We own a campground and we get sprayed once a week for mosquitos.""
I'm curious as to why your campground is sprayed for mesquitos? swampland maybe?
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Hi Ward and welcome to the forum.
Most pesticides are put on as a wet mist, water is used to dilute the pesticide to the proper working strength and by increasing the volume makes it easier to control the coverage area application rate. These chemicals kill a number of ways.
1-Direct contact to the bees.
2- Moisture picked up and brought back to the hive.
3- Residue brought back into the hive with pollen and nectar from plants sprayed or/and covered by spray that has drifted to outlying crops out side of it's target area.
4 - Direct application to the hive or drifting of the chemical into the hive.
Here are some tips on minimizing the effects these chemicals and their application has on the hives.
1 - Have the spray applied before the bees begin to fly or block the bees in the hive so they are not actively flying while the sprays are applied.
2 - The wet mist from the sprays are attractive to the bees as a water source until the water has evaporated so blocking the bees in the hive until the sun has dried up the mist will keep the bees from collecting it.
3 - Mow the area before application to remove any flowers and forage that will become contaminated by the spraying.
4 - Very little wind is needed to cause the spray to drift in to surrounding areas. This is harder to control as to bee forage area but can be controlled from entering the hive. Screening the bees in will confine the bees in the hive but the hive and bees are at risk of being effected by drifting chemicals, and the chance of bee loss because of over heating from being confined to the colony and not having the moisture and being to confined to adequately ventilate the hive.
Another way to deal with problems 1,2,&4, Is to trick the bees into staying in side the hive and not allow them to forage until the greatest risk to their health is passed.
This I have done by placing a white sheet over the hive and place a sprinkler on the hives.
No need to block the bees in as the bees stay in the hive as they think it is raining. It keeps the hive cool and the bees will not over heat. The water and wet sheet will stop and dilute any spray that has drifted, or is sprayed on or over the hives.
Once all the moisture has evaporated from the sprays the bees can be allowed to fly by turning off the sprinkler and filliping the sheet off the hive. The bees will have a close water supply from the saturation of the ground by the sprinkler which will have diluted any drifting chemical to a point where it will be far below the toxicity level that would effect the bees.
Spraying at 5 am. I have seen bees start their first flights between 5 and 6 am. on many days so the moisture of the sprays will be attractive to the bees until it has evaporated, and any dew that was on the grass that has been hit by sprays and contaminated has evaporated.
I have kept bees in cherry orchards thru the years that are getting sprayed every 10 days using this approach.