Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: tbonekel on March 04, 2014, 10:39:17 am
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I just watched a little video by Michael Palmer about the importance of bee stings. He talked about immunity and T cells and E cells. It was really interesting because he said that the family of a beekeeper is more likely to be allergic to bee stings if they don't ever get stung. That was crazy and I tried to Google some more information about it, but only came up with sites with words I can't hardly pronounce, much less understand. Anyone have some more insight on this? I have been really close to getting some epi pens. Now I'm closer.
Here is the video if you have never seen it.
www.youtube.com/embed/P0QB96RrGdM
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I may be off base here a bit but I believe the story goes something like this.
Workers as a large beeyard had their suits washed regularly and it was discovered that the workers in the laundry became sensitive to bee venom.
Same thing with your typical beekeeper. He/She works the yard, comes home and hangs up his/her suit, and the venom that has accumulated on the suit becomes airborne and is taken in by family members, creating sensitivity.
Kinda crazy but apparently quite true.
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Very interesting. I don't think I could convince the little woman to hold still while I hold a bee butt to her.
Worth a try though!
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I first heard this from Iddee on the old forum. It didn't seem plausible until I did some research. Apparently, it is a very real, and true scenario.
Remember, Iddee says it is true. :)
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Well Woody- I wouldn't hold still waiting for you to put a bee on me either... :D the anticiaption is too great. However, she could put a bee on herself... in time. But she would probably do better seeing you put a bee on yourself first, with a pair of long tweezers.
The American Apitherapy Society is a wonderful site. If you become a member for $45 a year. Upon request, AAS Vice-President Theodore Cherbuliez MD will mail you a prescription for how ever many epipens you want, at $20 a piece. Considering that a single epipen costs approx $250 a crack, it's worth considering.
http://www.apitherapy.org/
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Jen, I don't know where you are pricing your epi=pens, but Wal=mart gets 65.00 each.
And yes, family members develop an allergy more than the normal populace or the actual beeks, not only from the equipment, but because as a rule, they are stung more often than the normal person, but less than the beek. The beek normally develops an immunity.
Knowing this, I have never tried to keep from getting stung, as I didn't want to fall into that middle range category.
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Hi Iddee! $250 an epi pen is priced here in our town, northern california. I think it's rediculous because most cannot afford that.
Good to know about Walmart~ I would think that that price would be nation wide with walmart. Thank You.
And I myself don't mind getting stung, but of course I sting all year long ~
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I don't think I work with bees enough for the venom to become airborne, but you never know. I have already been stung once this year so I'm probably good to go. My family doesn't have a desire to work with the bees. I was thinking about getting an epipen to have just in case, but I thought I read somewhere about Walgreens having something for $25. I must have been reading something else. I need to at least have some benadril handy.
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Liquid Benedrill is the best. Not the liquid in the capsule, the liquid that's poured into the little cup.
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" It was really interesting because he said that the family of a beekeeper is more likely to be allergic to bee stings if they don't ever get stung. That was crazy and I tried to Google some more information about it, but only came up with sites with words I can't hardly pronounce, much less understand. Anyone have some more insight on this? I have been really close to getting some epi pens. Now I'm closer."
tb.......what do you want to know in plain english?.......... :D
epi pens,(the brand Epi-Pen) are about $250, they come in a 2 pack with a trainer pen, with insurance for me, the cost is about $75. like jen said, carry the liquid benadryl, it's for children, but just take the dose required that equals the benadryl gel caps or tablets. it works quickly.
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I keep an epi-pen in my jacket pocket. I don't know what it cost. My insurance must have picked up most of it.
I don't think there's any danger of me falling in the middle category. Some people describe my bees as ( testy )
Everything I read about Beeweaver bees reminds me of mine!
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RB, they come in both 1 pack and 2 pack with trainer. It has been about 3 years since you started buying them for me, "VA", ;D but at that time, the singles were 65.00 at wal-mart. I did not have any kind of ins. at the time.
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Woody ""I keep an epi-pen in my jacket pocket.""
Excellent! All of us should have an epi pen near where we are working!
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Should the elipen be stored a some specific temperature? If so, it would have to be added to the tool box each time it was used. How long is the prescription in the epipen viable?
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"RB, they come in both 1 pack and 2 pack with trainer. It has been about 3 years since you started buying them for me, "VA", ;D but at that time, the singles were 65.00 at wal-mart. I did not have any kind of ins. at the time."
ah yes, the VA......they do come in single and double packs, i think the docs write the prescription to your susceptibility to anaphlyaxis, i was and still am in the 2 doser category..... :D
"Should the elipen be stored a some specific temperature? If so, it would have to be added to the tool box each time it was used. How long is the prescription in the epipen viable? "
lazy, 1 year but.....the epis need to be stored between 70 and 77 degrees i think.....no extreme heat or cold, there is a window on them to be able to tell if the epinephrine is no good, it becomes clouded.
EDIT AND ADD:
for those without insurance or assistance in purchasing epis, do a little work and google 'epi pen assistance program'......
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Knowing this, I have never tried to keep from getting stung, as I didn't want to fall into that middle range category.
Iddee quote:
"The 200 stings per day when I didn't know there were 5 hives in the same wall and was smoking only the one I was removing.
The 150 stings when I scraped off a hive when it was 46 degrees.
The time I was carrying a hive in bathing trunks when the bottom fell off.
Unloading 500 hives from a semi at night, with no veil. Countless stings.
And that's just the beginning."
You ain't kidding are you? :o
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Liquid Benedrill is the best. Not the liquid in the capsule, the liquid that's poured into the little cup.
A word of caution: If you have glaucoma, like me, just say no to Benedryl.
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Good Info on epipens Riv-
Baker- Interesting, how come no benedril with glaucoma?
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So, how many stings does one need to get beyond that "middle ground"? I usually get about 6 or 8 stings per year. Already had my first this year!
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I have no idea how many it takes. I would say each person is likely different. As for 6 or 8 a year, I've put that many on myself in a day, just for pain relief in my neck and back.
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ablanton- on the average it takes up to about 20 stings to not itch or swell anymore. This has held true with my bee sting clients. When I'm teaching them to sting themselves, I tell them to sting then wait until the swelling goes down then sting again until they no longer swell. Every one is a little different. With me it took about 3 weeks, stinging every three days.
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Iddee- ""As for 6 or 8 a year, I've put that many on myself in a day, just for pain relief in my neck and back.""
After I got past the initial stinging stage, I can now take up to 6 when I'm having a bad back day.
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So, how many stings does one need to get beyond that "middle ground"? I usually get about 6 or 8 stings per year. Already had my first this year!
Wow! I don't keep count but it'll be over a hundred. I always suit up completely but my bees can be persistent.
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When I'm working with a sting client, we keep count. It's part of the process.
I try and put at least one bee on a week during the winter, that way I don't have to go thru the 20 stings in the spring to get immune for the summer.
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Jen
I tried the sting therapy on the little woman. It was a no go!
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You mean you tried to sting her or you suggested BvT?
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Guess I better get some meaner bees. I don't own a bee suit and only use a veil on rare occasions. My girls just don't sting that much. I was working them Sunday afternoon. Three of five observers got stung. None got me. We determined they don't like blue because all three of the victims were wearing blue shirts. :D
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I just suggested! I know better than to try.
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Baker- Interesting, how come no benedril with glaucoma?
I don't know what Benedryl does specifically, but my ophthalmologist said to read all over the counter meds. If the label cautions those with glaucoma to not use it, then don't use it. Although I have received treatment to control the pressure in the eyes, and see the doctor on a regular basis, I have to continue to be cautious.
Some cold remedies are off limits too.
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Bakerdozen:
Has modern day medicine found a way to contain glaucoma? In the old days, it was a very bad scenario.
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I don't get stung all that much. When I do I don't swell much, doesn't really ever itch...
But my incident where I got.. 30 - 40 stings +?... No idea how many, the 30 - 40 number is the stingers that got removed by father and wife... I felt fine, the stings burned a bit, but nothing I couldn't handle.. went to bed as normal.. woke up about 3 AM or so, sweating, feeling nauseous... about an Hour later I threw up.. after that I felt better and went back to bed..
Most stings on hands and head. Didnt swell, never had much of a reaction as far as turning red or breathing difficulties, but I can tell you this.. If I take 200 plus stings I would probably be a bit worried. I have no fear of 200 stings, but if 30- to 40 stings make me sick what will happen with 200+ ??
Think I am going to have to make an effort to annoy the ladies a bit more.
Woody.. your doing it all wrong! Wait till she is asleep!! :laugh:
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Lazy
She wakes up grouchy enough anyway! :laugh:
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Iddee quote:
The time I was carrying a hive in bathing trunks when the bottom fell off.
Wait, are we talking hive or trunks? Either way, I'm sure you would get stung. ;)
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Lazy- ""I felt fine, the stings burned a bit, but nothing I couldn't handle.. went to bed as normal.. woke up about 3 AM or so, sweating, feeling nauseous... about an Hour later I threw up.. after that I felt better and went back to bed.""
In the world of apitherapy, that reaction right there is considered "Excellent!" meaning that your body really zero'd in and nailed down the immunity for you. A flu like episode is as good as it gets for venom immunity.
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After my bad reaction to a wasp sting last fall my doctor wrote out a prescription for an Epi-pen. I went to my local Walmart to fill it and they asked me for $340 for a pac that included a pair of Epi-pens. I told them to put it back on the shelf. I bought a couple of bottles of liquid Benedryl to get me by if I need it. Been stung since by my girls with no reaction at all.
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The wasp has different venom than honey bees. Not unusual to have a reaction to one but not the other.
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And a wasp can sting repeatedly and bite.
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leather jim~
"The wasp has different venom than honey bees. Not unusual to have a reaction to one but not the other."
jim is correct on this, we can be allergic to wasps, hornets or yellow jackets, but not to honey bees. it is unusual. more mystifying, if a beekeeper develops an allergy to honey bees, it is unusual that they are allergic to other stinging insects, most notably the yellow jacket. this is uncommon.
some of us, like myself, managed to develop an allergy to all of the stinging insects, which is not common.
i always say, if you do something, do it up good........ :laugh:
i think my eppy's and i are going to be life long friends.... :D
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And a wasp can sting repeatedly and bite.
When the bees are realy angy they also bite and sting , they look like "C" :laugh:
mvh Edward :P
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The stuff about people getting sick from the venom dust is probable, angry hive smell, all those bees with their butts in the air and stingers out spreading a venomous sent :o
mvh Edward :P
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I agree with ya Riverbee and IF I was allergic to honey bees or all stinging bugs… :sad:…I WOULD FORK OUT THE $$$$$ for many Epi-pens. Heck I'd probably have about a dozen laying around just so I know there would be one close if I needed it.
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Bakerdozen:
Has modern day medicine found a way to contain glaucoma? In the old days, it was a very bad scenario.
To regulate the pressure in my eyes, the ophthalmologist used a laser to put a small hole in each eye. The pressure is still high, but he monitors me regularly. I am assuming that using Benedryl or other OTC products with glaucoma warnings would cause a spike in pressure and could result in damaging the optic nerve.
Sounds creepy doesn't it?
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Lazy- ""I felt fine, the stings burned a bit, but nothing I couldn't handle.. went to bed as normal.. woke up about 3 AM or so, sweating, feeling nauseous... about an Hour later I threw up.. after that I felt better and went back to bed.""
In the world of apitherapy, that reaction right there is considered "Excellent!" meaning that your body really zero'd in and nailed down the immunity for you. A flu like episode is as good as it gets for venom immunity.
Ecellent is good then.. ;D
However.. It makes me wonder what the reaction would have been to two hundred stings? I hope I never have to find out. those 30 to 40 stings felt like 200.
What amazed me most, is that those bees didn't even go for the veil. They BOILED in under the veil. I was sloppy, didn't have it tied well because most "swarms" I have dealt with were very docile... Unfortunately, it was NOT a swarm... Those bees were hanging there watching me.. talking to each other...
"Oh.. hes got a brush!!! OK gals, here's the plan.. If he tries to brush us.. GO for that hole where his veil isn't tied.................
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I remember one hunting season many years back. Hubby and I were quietly moving through in the woods, we were about 30 feet apart. He stepped on a log and yellow jackets came out and hit the back of his head so fast it was like lighting, and they squirmed under his ball cap. He said it was like a bomb went off in his head. We picked 13 dead ones out of his hair, and that doesn't count the loose stingers. Made him sick for a bit, sat down and put his head down. It wasn't too long before we were quietly moving thru the woods again. Kept my eye on him.
It's the adrenaline rush that gets you thru those episodes.
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Dang Bakersdozen,
I am sorry to hear that! Is it hereditary?
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It could have been a starving swarm that has used up all their honey stores and hasn't found a new suitable hive :'( They can get cranky and are not happy :'(
The worst sting I've had was on the top of my head after helping a colleague, she got me after a long day in multiple beeyards when we were unloading supers.
It was like a hanna barbera cartoon, i saw stars spinning round my head, and maybe the odd little blue bird, the pain was compact and intensive for an hour, the whole world swayed and was rubbery :o
mvh Edward :P
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I called the doctors office. Told them I have bees. I do not need to come in to get an exam or physical. All I need was an epipen. He said "ok". Cost me $35 bucks. I need to get another. It's been in the truck and been too cold. I wonder if people took the approach with the doc that we know what we are doing can we get it cheaper will it work?
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crazy, did you have insurance that paid the majority of the cost? and what brand of epi ?
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Crazy is a descriptive name for a beekeeper. I may change my handle to Crazy Lazy Shooter.
Bee stings aren't important to me, but I got four stings yesterday whether I wanted them or not. Stings seldom swell on me. They make a red mark for about 30 minutes and may itch for a couple of hours, but stings do not leave a visible mark more than a couple of hours.
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i found this offer for 2014 and started a thread here with the link to obtaining epi-pens:
EPI PEN Zero Dollar Co-Pay Offer 2014 (http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php?topic=1043.msg13907#msg13907)
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Great Idea Riv- If you lived in my town I would make you an awesome dinner! :D
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I'm anticipating more stings this year, with this feral colony I've picked up. I usually get about half a dozen in a year, at most, but the ladies seem to like me and don't go after me very often and I'm usually in nothing but short sleeves and a veil. My husband gets large local reactions (his whole arm will swell if he gets stung, say, on the wrist) so he bundles up, and we may get a suit for him this year.
I have a good friend who was over for a couple of inspections last year and my ladies *hate* him. I've never seen anything like it. I'd be elbow deep in the hives in my tank top, no problem. He'd be standing 15 feet away and they'll zero in on him and chase him off. He's 6'4" and 300 pounds so the stings do nothing to him at all, but he stays far away now.
The worst I've ever had was 13+ stings (that's where I lost count) on each ankle, moving some hives after three nights of bear attacks on them. I had 2 pairs of socks over my jeans and they still got through and just tore me up. Both my ankles swelled up so bad I could hardly walk, but only for a day.
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A French study found that if you receive fewer than 25 stings per year, your chances of developing a sting allergy were about 40% in your lifetime.
However, if you receive 50-200 stings per year, the chances drop to 10%
If you receive over 200 stings per year, the chances of becoming allergic
drop to zero!
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200 stings per year? Does it count if you get them all at once? ;D
I'll probably not be going for that record.. I don't mind a few.. I get more than three or four I put the suit on.
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Dang Bakersdozen,
I am sorry to hear that! Is it hereditary?
It can be, but I am the only one that I know of in my immediate family. My dad died fairly young, so we don't know if that's where I got it.
In adult hood I always have had elevated pressure in the eyes. I still do even after the doctor put holes in the eyes. But, there is no damage done thus far.
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Hi Hein- ""He'd be standing 15 feet away and they'll zero in on him and chase him off.""
We have a similar situation. Hubby is a cig smoker, and a couple of beers in the afternoon. The bees go to his veil. I am wondering if they don't like the cig beer breath?
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river, my insurance did pay all except $35. I got 2 epipen and they are from the Mylan Co.
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crazy, thanks for the reply. the eppy/s you left in your truck in the cold are most likely no longer usable. save yourself 35$ for the copay, and go to the link i posted for the epi-pen mylan offer. you can get up to three 2 packs of these....... ;)
jen, if i make out your way, would love the awesome dinner!