Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: rodmaker on March 12, 2014, 06:25:07 pm

Title: Queenless hives
Post by: rodmaker on March 12, 2014, 06:25:07 pm
   My first check of the year revealed two hives with no queen so on feb 27 i gave each hive a frame of brood eggs to capped brood on march 6 i checked and no queen cells so i gave each hive another frame of brood . Checked on march 8 and both hives started building queen cells checked again today and one hive had two capped queen cells the other hive had one capped and one open with larva in it. My question is will the bees accept a new queen as both of these hives had a laying worker? I had read that a worker would quit laying after she had brood to care for. There are plenty of drones in my hives so that is not a concern. I have heard it is very hard to save a hive once it had a laying worker. Any Ideas or comments will be appreciated thank you.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: Perry on March 12, 2014, 07:27:29 pm
I believe it is the pheromones of of open brood that might suppress laying workers. The fact that they are raising queens cells is very encouraging. Sometimes it takes more than once placing a frame of open brood to get them to raise a queen, so it sort of fits in to what you describe happening.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: brooksbeefarm on March 12, 2014, 07:34:49 pm
I have never had much luck getting a laying worker hive to make a queen cell from a brood frame with eggs or introducing a new queen. You may have got lucky but time will tell. I hope it works out for you, i don't find it worth the time or effort any more, i now just dump all the bees out about 50ft. from where there hive was and take the hive home. Any worker bee that wants to work will find a new home and the drones are welcome in any hive they chose anyway. Jack
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: barry42001 on March 12, 2014, 09:34:41 pm
the only thing I gotta ask is, assuming you didn't go into the winter months with an old queen, what would have killed her off and not the cluster? let alone killed several Queens in different hives. dont understand that. inferior Queens inferior genetics what?

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Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: LazyBkpr on March 12, 2014, 09:41:05 pm
Perry pretty much answered it..   As far as i know...      IF.. they make queen cells they will be good, its getting a hive with laying workers to accept an introduced queen that is mostly impossible.. if they make their own they will have a queen..  Job WELL done!!
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: apisbees on March 13, 2014, 04:39:01 am
the only thing I gotta ask is, assuming you didn't go into the winter months with an old queen, what would have killed her off and not the cluster? let alone killed several Queens in different hives. dont understand that. inferior Queens inferior genetics what?

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The beekeeper in doing late fall of early inspections killing or damaging the queen. Running out of sperm. Reduced pheromones especially when not laying brood and the bees not attending to her adequately. Split clusters and the part with the queen starves the the part that stayed in contact with the food survives with out the queen. 
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: tecumseh on March 13, 2014, 04:57:51 am
I would add excess cold temperature and a small worker population to Apis list of likely suspect < this would logically lead to the queens becoming too cold and the sperm being damaged in the process.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: Bakersdozen on March 13, 2014, 08:08:26 am
I had a laying worker hive a few years back.  I did a shake out.  In a few weeks you can do a split from your remaining hives and introduce a queen then.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: rodmaker on March 13, 2014, 10:46:15 am
  Thank you for all the advise and encouragement . Both these hives had queens in december they were first year hives started from packages april 2013. When i added brood i also added the bees that were on the frame used sugar syrup with pro health to help mask pheromones. I should have new queens in seven more days and will pot when i see new queen and eggs. Keeping my fingers crossed they will not kill new queen either way it is a good learning experience .
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: brooksbeefarm on March 13, 2014, 10:57:49 am
And will pot when i see new queen??? Jack
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: rodmaker on March 13, 2014, 11:09:30 am
 Post i missed one letter.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: LazyBkpr on March 13, 2014, 12:47:48 pm
ahhh, I was thinking your bee suit would be messy when you saw the new queen..    ;D

   I have not tried multiple frames of brood at different times until it finally works, but it is something I read can sometimes work. After a first try I usually shake them out and move a couple frames with bees into the hive along with a new queen... of course depending on WHEN I realize whats going on.. if in august I count it as gone, shake them out and remove their hive.  Maybe put a weak colony where that hive was.
   Your success will give me enough confidence to give it a go.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: rodmaker on March 19, 2014, 03:32:22 pm
  One of the hives queen hatched today and killed other queen by chewing through side of cell she looked good to me . Will not open this hive for another two weeks. Other hive queen has not hatched yet should be tomorrow.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: riverbee on March 19, 2014, 07:57:39 pm
very cool!!!
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: rodmaker on March 21, 2014, 09:23:00 pm
  Queen hatched in the other hive so both hives now have queens . Now just crossing fingers they make it back from mating flights and start laying going to be a long couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: tecumseh on March 21, 2014, 10:17:30 pm
Are we there yet..... well almost.....
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: rodmaker on March 29, 2014, 05:32:48 pm
   Was out sitting watching the girls fly and saw something out of the ordinary in front of one of the hives that was rearing a queen and i was lucky enough to see the new queen. The bees were all over her in an excited way and i moved closer for a peek and saw the new queen moving about on the landing area and then disappear into the hive. This happened at 2:20 pm my time so i am hoping she was returning from a mating flight. I think i may be one step closer to a queen right hive.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: LazyBkpr on March 29, 2014, 05:38:30 pm
and.... you didn't have your camera with you...     :o     :'(

    I never have the camera with me when I need it..  when I do have it..  I see something worthy of filming/pictures, but its DONE by the time I turn the camera on and focus....

    Glad to hear this news RodMaker.. Keep us updated!!
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: Jen on March 29, 2014, 05:54:49 pm
Wohahaow! Now that would have made my day  ;) 8)

Now you and Ziffa have the coolest queen stories. Her's with bumbing a queen cell and having the queen walk out onto her hand ~ Super Cool You Guys!
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: riverbee on March 29, 2014, 10:32:00 pm
"Was out sitting watching the girls fly and saw something out of the ordinary in front of one of the hives that was rearing a queen and i was lucky enough to see the new queen. The bees were all over her in an excited way and i moved closer for a peek and saw the new queen moving about on the landing area and then disappear into the hive."

how very AWESOME was that?!!!
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: rodmaker on April 03, 2014, 04:42:37 pm
   Well i opened up both of the hives that used to e queen less and both had a beautiful queen and one and a half frames of eggs and larva so it appears both seem to have raised and excepted a new queen. Both of these hives had laying workers and both raised a new queen after the second frame of brood was added each one week apart . This was probably just dumb luck because i still have a lot i don't know about bees . But this experiment was very enjoyable.
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: LazyBkpr on April 03, 2014, 06:19:38 pm
I doubt it was dumb luck Rodmaker. Despite not having confidence in WHAT you were doing, you still did the right thing at the right time. By guess or by golly, it worked. Take credit where credit is due!!
Title: Re: Queenless hives
Post by: rodmaker on April 19, 2014, 04:17:28 pm
    Both hives now have at least eight frames of brood so i will not be afraid to try to save a hive that has gone laying worker over the winter again . All i did was give each hive one frame of brood  an then the next week give them another frame and they did all the work .