Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Woody Roberts on March 14, 2014, 06:49:01 pm
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I made me some multiple jar feeders this week. Their the type that goes over your inner cover with #8 mesh you set the jars in.
Some hold 4 jars, some hold 6.
I've been feeding with the Baggie method but felt there had to be a better way.
My question is the bees don't seem to be taking as much as they did with the baggies. They've only been on a few days and I still have baggies on some so I can compare.
The first one I built I just set in the yard. It's going thru a gallon a day. Mostly to the neighboring bee trees I suspect.
Any of you used these before?
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Pics would be nice~ :)
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Those I have seen used replaced the inner cover, not on top the inner cover. Maybe they are having trouble accessing them.
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I'll get my camera and see if I can get some pics up
Edit. Of course the battery is dead. I'll give it a few minutes.
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I have used those feeders that are about the size of a shallow super, holds 2 & half gallons of syrup, but the bees drowned by the droves in it. even floating wood sticks in it didn't prevent it. consequently I stopped using them
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(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.cc%2F67yewcprj%2FDSCN0076.jpg&hash=5aef4876285640bfef71c29233e4aa29db14076b) (http://postimg.cc/image/67yewcprj/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs29.postimg.cc%2Fxms3o2k4z%2FDSCN0075.jpg&hash=14c46ef35f311c936c886a057f216c547f40b762) (http://postimg.cc/image/xms3o2k4z/)
i havent put the screens on these yet. I have some on the hives without screens till i see what works best.
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Here's a picture of the one I got from Kelley's:
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UkBz5xDR2Pw%2FUT3wWCqLcNI%2FAAAAAAAAAJ8%2FAy15zUkk-qk%2Fs1600%2F2013-03-10_18-50-58_869.jpg&hash=975503c941aac8647a586aabe94ba2da6931db8c)
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I'd bought one like these but it was 22.00 bucks and I thought I could make some for that.
I was feeding in the yard with a makeshift rig like Barry's talking about but the causality rate was pretty high.
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no, i don't use these, i use a one gallon pail inverted over the inner cover, but i would say what iddee did:
"Those I have seen used replaced the inner cover, not on top the inner cover. Maybe they are having trouble accessing them."
also, what are your night time temps woody?
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My night time temps are still pretty cool. I've been feeding with baggies a couple weeks.
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Riv ""no, i don't use these, i use a one gallon pail inverted over the inner cover, but i would say what iddee did""
I'm intrigued with this pail your talking about and I forgot what company you get them from?
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"My night time temps are still pretty cool. I've been feeding with baggies a couple weeks."
woody, these baggie feeders sit right on top your frames, a big difference versus placing a jar over the inner cover or placing them over on whatever over the inner cover(heat from the cluster). to feed over the hive you want your temps ideally well above freezing and probably at about 50 degrees for them to take it down. some beeks here will take them off at night, warm them up the next day and place back on.
jen, my one gallon pails are just plastic with a stainless steel screen glued/melted in the center. i put them on with an empty deep to cover and insulate the box if temps are cooler. i get these from b and b honey farm:
One Gallon Feeder Pail (http://www.bbhoneyfarms.com/store/c-13-beehive-feeders-/p-60-feeder-pail-1-gallon)
One Gallon Feeder Pail Lid
(http://www.bbhoneyfarms.com/store/c-13-beehive-feeders-/p-610-feeder-pail-lid-one-gallon)
ps the pails do come with the lids, but the 2nd link has a better photo of what the lids look like.
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Home Depot has 2 gal pails with lids in the paint dept. They will fit under a empty deep. I drill hole in the center with a # 57 drill bit. Work great.
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The difference between a baggie and the jars is that the baggie will take more warmth from the cluster, the jars dissipate too much heat.. Or don't absorb enough of it from the cluster. Let the temps warm up a bit and you will love the jar feeder.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.postimg.cc%2Fyi7ylbgfz%2FDSCF0215.jpg&hash=50d7ca12abe932addefd48b0f787c73f063fad32) (http://postimg.cc/image/yi7ylbgfz/)
Just remember to keep them covered.. if its 40 at night and 70 in the daytime the jars will dribble if the sun hits them.
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Lazy
These are my thoughts also.
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sort of what i said earlier?........ :D
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sort of what i said earlier?........ :D
Exactly!! :)
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Sorry Mrs Riv... Didn't mean to step on your toes.. I skipped too much when reading through the posts and missed it.. I humbly beg for your forgiveness!!!
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It is not that impotent in the spring that the bees actually takes the syrup down and stores it but that it is there for their use if needed. If they run out of honey they will suck the syrup regardless of temperature. As long as it is on the hive it will encourage the bees to expand the brood area providing the have pollen, the bee population, favorable temps, and space to lay.
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Riv, you have any problems with them closing the screen holes with propolis?
Can you buy just the screens from them?
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"Riv, you have any problems with them closing the screen holes with propolis?
Can you buy just the screens from them?"
tefer, you might get a little propolization, but i have never had them close it up completely. the propolis, if any, is easily removed with ammonia when you wash and refill the bucket. i am unsure if you could just buy the screens from them? send them an email and ask. they sell another one, for a 2 gallon pail, i have some of these, just glue them in with a hot glue gun:
Screen Feeder Plugs (http://www.bbhoneyfarms.com/store/p-63-screen-feeder-plugs?keyword=screen)
Sorry Mrs Riv... Didn't mean to step on your toes.. I skipped too much when reading through the posts and missed it.. I humbly beg for your forgiveness!!!
....... :D lazy, that was meant to be funny! no apology!
ps 2 GREAT minds think alike....! :D
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Those look just like the little airators (sp) that you put in kitchen and bath faucets. I might have to keep my eyes open for those at garage sales.
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well i dunno tbone, those little aerators you would have to plug a lot of them into a lid if you were industrious and all...... :D
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The bees do not propolise the screens if there is syrup in the pail it is only if you leave them on the hive and they are empty. when we use to get package bees the feeder cans used fine nylon cloth as a screen material. There were 2 versions, one the cloth was attached to the inside of the lid and the cam was filled with syrup and the lid put on the other the cloth was put over a plastic ring insert and pressed into the hole in the lid of the can.
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"The bees do not propolise the screens if there is syrup in the pail it is only if you leave them on the hive and they are empty."
with all due respect apis, sure they will and yes they do.......(when there is syrup in the pail, not empty).
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I do not have a problem with bees propolising the holes in the lids closed. although I do not over feed the bees. I will provide syrup if needed but most do not need it. They do propolise the lid to the cut out of the inner cover.
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"I do not have a problem with bees propolising the holes in the lids closed I do not over feed the bees. I will provide syrup if needed but most do not need it. They do propolise the lid to the cut out of the inner cover."
neither do i. i don't overfeed my bees, i provide as you do when needed, and yes, experience the same propolization of the lid to the cut out of the inner cover. and sometimes they will propolize or try to propolize very minimal, some of the screen, very small dot or two. ;)
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Just an experiment.
This season I hope to try a nuc feeder I have made.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fvb4v9c5bh%2FDSC00179.jpg&hash=4a085bd0d80c7acd2da1f275083fdbc7f05b8dd0) (http://postimg.cc/image/vb4v9c5bh/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2Fg5h71dgix%2FDSC00180.jpg&hash=38ddd189092dd217f544968a43dee0bf2dccb13a) (http://postimg.cc/image/g5h71dgix/)
I will use a fine needle to go through some of the base holes and pierce the foil. The frog is a float. The feeder will go on the hole in the inner cover.
I hope that I will be able to easily check the level of the syrup and refill with the feeder in position. The bees should have easy access to the close syrup.
I would appreciate any thoughts and comments on this design.
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http://www.beemaidbeestore.com/product.php?txtCatID=47&txtProdID=338
I have had the screens propolized shut (usually when a bucket is empty, but not always). I had a devil of a time trying to open them up. I tried a couple of quick passes with a torch and you guessed it......melted the lids.
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Just an experiment.
This season I hope to try a nuc feeder I have made.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fvb4v9c5bh%2FDSC00179.jpg&hash=4a085bd0d80c7acd2da1f275083fdbc7f05b8dd0) (http://postimg.cc/image/vb4v9c5bh/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs28.postimg.cc%2Fg5h71dgix%2FDSC00180.jpg&hash=38ddd189092dd217f544968a43dee0bf2dccb13a) (http://postimg.cc/image/g5h71dgix/)
I will use a fine needle to go through some of the base holes and pierce the foil. The frog is a float. The feeder will go on the hole in the inner cover.
I hope that I will be able to easily check the level of the syrup and refill with the feeder in position. The bees should have easy access to the close syrup.
I would appreciate any thoughts and comments on this design.
If the seal on the lid is not 100% and it allows any air in it will allow the syrup to drip down onto the bees. the syrup will drip when the lid is open for refilling. Put the holes in the lid so when it is fulled and the lid is put back on a little air can be pressed out of the tub as it is turned over. this will keep the syrup from dripping until the vacuum is formed.
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When I feed, I use quart jars over the inner cover hole or sometimes just a boardman set up. I don't have to worry about robbing as there are no bees other than mine in our drought ridden area. :) Seriously, I suspect the feral bees in my area are at a low population level. My bees don't rob from hive to hive, as I selected my bees based on moral turpitude. :) Sometimes the quart jars leak into the hives, but they seldom drown any bees. All the other feeding methods I have used drowned too many bees for my acceptance. But take my word as being from one who is a novice and one who hates to feed. Only God in Heaven knows how much I hate to feed.
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The larger the space, the more a vacuum system seems to dribble.
I have gallon small mouth jars that fit the same lids as standard quart jars. the gallon jars leak more when..
The temps change, the barametric pressure changes, the stand gets bumped or wiggled by the wind etc...
I think, weight and volume also have an effect. A lot more weight above, pushing down on the liquid opposing the vacuum.. so when they dribble they dribble a moment longer until the vacuum can overcome the added weight, as well as the speed of the syrup leaking out... Make sense??? My best guess....
I found Plastic gallon jars with standard small mouth lids.. I think it was from Pigeon Mountain... Those leaked even worse when the sun hit them.. or it went from 40 at night to 80 in the day. If the sun hit them it also warmed the plastic and let it flex more, which reduced the vacuum and let them leak..
These reasons are why I have built the four jar feeders to take 4 quart jars so I can still put a gallon of syrup overhead, without the issues caused by the larger space/volume.....
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.cc%2Ftjtn3z3f5%2FDSCF0214.jpg&hash=b982075f16693607e868fc1e8454a4051d7d1355) (http://postimg.cc/image/tjtn3z3f5/)
I use three or four holes in the lids, and they still dribble a little every once in a while.. I don't think you can ever get past a little bit of dribbling... but using this set up seems to create less of a mess.
I have also noticed on the large gallon jars.. If I want to give them a quart of syrup, it takes quite a lot of syrup running out before the vacuum builds enough to stop the flow.
Those are the things I have encountered... I like the idea a lot and am interested to hear how the testing goes. Please keep us updated on your findings and any modifications you make as you proceed!!!
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"If I want to give them a quart of syrup, it takes quite a lot of syrup running out before the vacuum builds enough to stop the flow."
lazy, this is true with the plastic pails as well. before i place the pail over the inner cover, i invert the pail over an empty bucket first, to let the excess run out.
barbarian, interesting feeder you have there, would like to hear the experiment with it. also, i liked the little green frog in the container.... :D
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lazy, this is true with the plastic pails as well. before i place the pail over the inner cover, i invert the pail over an empty bucket first, to let the excess run out.
I Like the plastic pails as I can push down on the center of the lid and expel some of the extra air, invert the pail while releasing the lid. the vacuum is formed in the pail and very little syrup drips out.
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I decided to try my idea "off hive" with the feeder filled with water. The short answer --- EXPERIMENT FAILED. :'( There was a steady drip-drip out of the container.
Apis was right. It seems that you need a negative internal pressure in the feeder to stop it automatically running out.
I have not totally abandoned my thoughts. I would still like to be able to use a see-through container. I want to check the uptake of feed. I am on the look out for a suitable squat vessel. I am still not keen on the need to suit up just to change a feeder.
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I have been open feeding for about a week and the hives are loving it .
Here in SNOW SHOE PA. the pollen is not quite there yet {any day} and nectar at least 2 weeks . So I'm getting a head start building my numbers for the flow.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi952.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fae9%2FGLOCK3%2FBEEKEEPING%25202014%2FP4100156_zpsdbf6efc1.jpg&hash=ef9edb8283089b2d0fac63670533c719646c827c) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/GLOCK3/media/BEEKEEPING%202014/P4100156_zpsdbf6efc1.jpg.html)
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Wow, my bees would rob out that nuc before touching the chicken waterer. They are relentless though. I made up some nucs yesterday and I may have to move them this weekend.
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hehe, Thats what I thought when I saw the pic too Dunkel, so had to look who posted it... Glock has been around the block a time or two so I quit worrying at that point..
I have been putting my feeders out every morning the bees were flying. They went for the pollen sub HARD at first, without touching the syrup, but have now slowly moved to the syrup with only a few in the pollen sub now. Maples and Locust pollen coming in, probably a few other trees blooming too.
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Scott, as you predicted as the temps warmed up I love my jar feeders.
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My bees took down 4 gallons today from my feeder stands. I would not normally have refilled but the next few days are looking cold and rainy so I wanted them to take as much as they could. If the cold lasts more than three or four days I will put jars on top of the hives. Got to love the versatility of a good ol Mason Jar.
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4 Gallons! That's Amazing!
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Lots of hungry bees with only a few trees popping at the moment. Hoping it pays off when it comes time to split.
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Kelleys has been selling these types of feeders for several years.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kelleybees.com%2Fproducts%2Fimages%2Fmain%2F172-2.jpg&hash=5666856271e875fd5cc5a9dc91bf2c10bb9c3ce2)
What I do is drill a round hole in the inner cover, screen over it with #8, and sit my syrup jars over the screen. This way a quart jar will sit beneath a medium super...with the height of the feeder added in it would require a deep to cover a quart jar. Something else to consider is the indentation of insert of the mason jar lid (if using the ring-and-lid type). The indent of the lid could possibly move the holes too far away for the bees to reach. Simply install the lid backwards and the indentation will protrude outward towards the screen...O.J. Blount down at East of Eden Apiaries showed me that...and it works.
Best wishes,
Ed