Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Jen on March 30, 2014, 11:50:54 pm
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We started out today getting the second swarm hive set up with a small batch of brood from the mother hive. It was cold today, under 50, so I had to work fast. All the wooden/wax frames had just a little pulled wax on them, no go. Pulled one of the plastic frames with the insert, surgical insert had some brood, Bingo! (and 4 more queen cells!) Off to the garage for surgery. Cut the brood out of the insert, rubberbanded it to a medium put it into the second swarm box, Done. Took the plastic frame back to the mother hive and reinserted it.
But, before all of this procedure... When I got back to the garage with the brood frame, I propped the frame up against the hive for a few minutes while I turned and washed my hands in the sink and got the knife. When I turned back to start cutting out the brood there was a queen walking along the top bar of the frame.. Wow! my heart took a leap. I had a jar handy so I scooped her up in my hand and put her in the jar.
Hubby and son come home, I'm at the front door with my jarred queen and a big grin. They follow me to the garage while I'm telling my story, and Lo and Behold! there is another queen walking along the edge of the hive lid. WOW! my heart take another leap! I grabbed another jar (I have lots of jars cause I make lotion you see) and put her in the jar. I showed these queens to my son, Scott 31 years old, cause he has never seen a queen. About one minute later, he says 'Hey Mom! is this a queen in the window?' ~ Third queen goes into a jar. Hubby and I are Dumbfounded, Hubby says "This is just Crazy!"
SO! The second swarm hive, of which we've named Mama Cast after Cass Elliot of 'The Mamas and the Papas', is out with the rest of the hives. And I'm left with 3 queens that I haven't got the vaguest idea what to do with ~
PS. They didn't take any syrup this afternoon, I figured they would be starving ??
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Cutting out small section of brood from insert
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Insert rubberbanded into medium frame
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Note three queen cells to the left, they all hatched within 5 minutes
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Three virgin queens ~ What do I do with these queens?
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often, it is "warder" bees keeping the queens in their cells waiting for the right moment.. opening the hive and removing the frame disturbed them/removed them, so the queens came rolling out.
Glad they didnt become more swarms!!!
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If you were in Texas Jen I would help you out with those surplus queens, I have plenty of drones.
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Usually you need to have 5 or 6 attendant bees to feed the queen, but Ièm not sure if that also goes for virgin ones. You might want to set them up in two frame mating nucs.
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Scott ""often, it is "warder" bees keeping the queens in their cells waiting for the right moment.. opening the hive and removing the frame disturbed them/removed them, so the queens came rolling out. Glad they didnt become more swarms!!!""
Interesting bit of info here Scott. But when I pulled the frame out I noticed the queen cells right away, I could have sworn that the cells were tightly capped. AND, I did here piping, it was soo wonderful ;D
Gypsy- ""If you were in Texas Jen I would help you out with those surplus queens, I have plenty of drones""
I have a good supply of drones as well. My situation now is how to keep these queens alive?
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What Pete said.If your short on equipment you can put two dividers in to make three three frame colonies.
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Pistol- ""You might want to set them up in two frame mating nucs""
jp- ""What Pete said. If your short on equipment you can put two dividers in to make three three frame colonies.""
I have no idea what you are talking about ??? I would need a pictorial or vid :)
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To late for these ones but take a super and build 3 dividers to separate a super into 4 sections give each section it's own entrance on a different side of the box. stock each section with a cup full of bees and a virgin queen or queen cell. The divider, bottom, and cover, have to be bee tight so the bees and queen can not move from compartment to compartment.
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Hi Apis! I'm one tired bee mommy :)
What do you mean it's too late for these ones? are they going to die?
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They need to be fed by workers and if you had not rescued them they would have killed each other with only one surviving or issued more cast swarms.
Enough with the swarming already. those darn girls decided to make more queen cells. That happens some times.
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under normal circumstances the first hatched queen would either have left with the first after swarm and the second emerging queen would have wiped out the rest of the queen cells or the first emerging queen would have wiped out the rest of the queen cells and then she would have the colony to her self. well it's not uncommon for a colony to after swim itself to death that doesn't necessarily make it either common or desirable. Jen, you've got some decisions to make. what are your ultimate goals for your bees. do you want to make honey or do you want to make bees, because you can't make both, if you make bees plan on feeding them all winter long, if you want to make honey you must keep your workforce intact. I'm sure you've seen posts, that have said there is no doubt about it a colony that has the swarmed repeatedly, will gather a fraction of the honey of one that did not. so you do have to make a decision, you either have a working colony or a bunch of pets colonies.
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Great point Barry She has spent the last 2 years making pet colonies this year she is after honey.
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Ok this is what I think has happened. Due to timing and what you have said. The first swarm left and was rehived. You culled all but 2 cells in parent colony. Cells hatched and 2 queens became one after battle or misted a cast swarm. The bees in parent colony still insisting on swarming raised a bunch more cells. So the cast swarm left with one of the 2 cells you left in the hive. I hope that you left one of the cells or a virgin escaped from a cell before you collected them out of the #1 hive.
To check for eggs a wait few days for the cast swarm. give the mother colony 2 weeks for a queen to mate and start laying.
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Pistol- ""You might want to set them up in two frame mating nucs""
jp- ""What Pete said. If your short on equipment you can put two dividers in to make three three frame colonies.""
I have no idea what you are talking about ??? I would need a pictorial or vid :)
Something like this Jen. I took an old deep, divided it into 4 two frame mating nucs. I keep one in each larger yard and when I come across a hive that has started swarm preps, I take the queen and some brood, make up a 5 frame nuc, and then divide any other frames with queen cells into these 2 frame compartments and let them raise some queens for me. There is a separate entrance on each side for each compartment.
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Ok this is what I think has happened. Due to timing and what you have said. The first swarm left and was rehived. You culled all but 2 cells in parent colony. Cells hatched and 2 queens became one after battle or misted a cast swarm. The bees in parent colony still insisting on swarming raised a bunch more cells. So the cast swarm left with one of the 2 cells you left in the hive. I hope that you left one of the cells or a virgin escaped from a cell before you collected them out of the #1 hive.
To check for eggs a wait few days for the cast swarm. give the mother colony 2 weeks for a queen to mate and start laying.
Excellent point there Apis.
As far as queens feeding themselves;
Michael Palmer and many others will tell you that queens are fully capable of feeding themselves. I have pulled the egg rockers from my incubator and put queens in it in the wooden cages. A drop of honey every couple of days, and humidifying the incubator kept them perfectly happy for nearly a week until I was ready for them. It was a pain, and a queen bank would have been nicer, but it pulled me out of a tight spot.
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This is the Mama Cast swarm in the upper medium. Since this pic, we have place her outside with the other two hives. My question is: This swarm went into two mediums. It seems like a lot of bees to me to fit into one medium, so I kept it in two mediums, both will be brood boxes. Should I let them draw out one medium at a time?
What do you think?
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yes otherwise they'll simply strip patches of wax off of the foundation.
the rule is when they have 7 frames: of foundation pulled, add the second. another clue is when you start seeing wax on the top bars
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"This swarm went into two mediums. It seems like a lot of bees to me to fit into one medium, so I kept it in two mediums, both will be brood boxes. Should I let them draw out one medium at a time?"
yes jen, keep them in two mediums (equal to 1 deep). feed them syrup to help them draw foundation. you don't want them getting congested in a medium box.
ps, swarm bees will have engorged honey stomachs and they will be drawing and filling cells with what they have.
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Thanks guys! I was thinking so, just making sure.
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A ten frame medium is a little larger than a 5 frame deep nuc. This is just one of the reasons I like mediums. Having said that, I have to pay attention to a new colony in a single medium, because the bees will often have six or seven frames well underway in a weeks time.
A smaller space is advantageous in that they can keep the temps regulated with less bees and raise brood easier. Starting a package in a ten frame deep compared to a nuc will often result in the nuc building up a faster. A ten frame medium is an intermediate size. More room than a 5 frame deep nuc, but not as much as a ten frame deep.
I start with a ten frame medium with package bees, but have to keep a close eye on them, because they will often draw and fill it within a few days. At which point I need to add another.
The determining factor is drawn comb. If all the frames in a ten frame medium are NEW frames with no comb, I start with one box. The difference is, that when they hit five or six frames drawn you need to add another. With deeps, you have a little more leeway.
If you have a lot of bees, two mediums is probably not a problem, just watch them to make sure the older bees are not dying off faster than they are replaced with new brood/bees. It has been a while since I had to start with no drawn comb. I usually start with at least five frames of drawn in a ten frame medium. Within five days I will be adding a second box.
Temperature makes a difference too. If your temps are warm they will need less bees to cover developing brood..
Just keep an eye on them. In spring I do inspections every seven days.. contrary to what most recommend.
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Jen, when I had my lessons on how to keep bees the teachers insisted on renewing comb 50% each year, so you always have clean comb with little to no residu from anything, but yours are pitch black. Is there any reason to keep using dark brown to black comb? I'm in my 2nd year so still learning everything I can.
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vossejongk, here it is recommended to change out 20% annually, or 2 frames in a 10 frame hive. That gives a complete change every 5 years. I have never heard of changing out 50%. Here, I would think that excessive, and not needed. Of course, I am not in the Netherlands, so it may be different there.
PS. Welcome to the forum. Glad to have another international member. Thanks for joining.
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Hi Vossejongk :) I have also read and been told on this forum to exchange frames on a regular basis. Where I live, the air is pretty clean, and we don't live near commercial agriculture fields where there are pesticides present. I think my stance at this point is to switch out frames about every three years, or when the wax gets brittle. So far, this very dark wax I have is still very plyable. Not only that but I can see eggs easier in dark wax.
I still consider myself a beginner as well, going into my 4 season. I've had a rough go of it these last three years and this forum has helped me out immensely ~
Welcome :) pull up a chair and tell us about your bee studies :)
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Hah well studies, it's really the basics on what to and not to do, keep them alive during winter and fighting the varroa is a big chunk of it as well. I trust my teacher, more then 25 years of experience so if he says replace 50% then I'll take his word. But I won't hijack this thread any further ;) haha
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Hello, and :welcome:
If you get a chance, tell us a bit about yourself in the Welcome section.
My wife's family is from Utrecht.
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Hijack this thread all you want to. We want your participation. Everybody's thoughts and opinions are welcome. A good mix of ideas make the best overall education.
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I try to keep my combs in the three to four year range... but have recently read about a study that said surviveability of brood is better in older comb of five to six years... ?
Unfortunately I didn't bookmark it, and my mind is way too far gone to remember it, but I do recall wondering in what type of environment the research was done in.
I live smack in the heart of farm country, where neonics and other pesticides are used widely.
Having fields within inches of some of my hives I have never noticed a large die off from the "bloom" of dust reported to spread from the planters. I watched a plane spray the field about a quarter mile from my house last year, and watched my bees VERY closely, but did not notice any die off of any hive. Still, I don't like leaving the older wax to collect the insecticides.. I have one yard I use as a survivor yard, and I an considering leaving a couple of the hives alone to let the comb age. Is there more benefit to older comb than danger?
I think that 50% would compromise too much ability to make honey. I try to replace most comb early when I am feeding, so that by the time the bloom hits most of the new comb is already built. I do replace a little during the bloom to keep the bees busy and the brood nest open, but its still not 50% .. 25 to 30% a year replacement, and I have as yet experienced no problems with build up in the wax that I am aware of.
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If you're after the honey then replacing 50% is quite much I guess, but for me bees are a hobby (I wonder how long it will stay that way lol) and any honey harvested is just a nice bonus :)
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Same with me vosse :) I really only want two hives, three is pushing it, and this year has been a challenge. Because of the swarm instinct with my bees, hubby and I are now discussing either requeening to slow down the swarm instinct, or prepare to make sellable nucs. Hubby thinks we have a great prolific set of genes here and doesn't want to disturb it. I would agree. However, it's ironic how he is off to work on the days that the swarms happen so I'm the one climbing the banks and trees in my jammies retrieving the swarms. I'm going to ask the bees to hold off on another swarm for when he has a day off :D
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for me bees are a hobby (I wonder how long it will stay that way lol)
heheh Indeed!
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Today! a blissfully peaceful day with the bees, they were busy and happy and so was I, got my taxes done. Okay Girls! Let's Play Ball!
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Okay Girls! Let's Play Ball!
:o >:( Apparently SOMEONE hasnt had enough running about in their jammies!!
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At this point I'm keeping the jammies by the back door facing the hives :D
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LOL
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Sat by the hives today and observed pollen going into the mother hive and the first swarm hive, a good sign. The second cast hive isn't doing much, bees coming and going, no pollen coming in.
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that is to be expected buy the time they have drawn some comb, the queen mates and starts to lay, and eggs get to day 3 and hatch so the need pollen. No pollen coming in a week from now and you could have a problem
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Thanks Apis, I'm marking my calendar. After next week, and I don't have drawn comb or eggs, what should I do?
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Look really hard for a queen and if non are found combine it with the weakest if they need the bees if not combine with the strongest and give them 3 weeks and split some nucs off.