Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Zweefer on April 22, 2014, 10:32:50 pm
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I would like opinions on the pros and cons of both. keep in mind, I am only asking about the frames, not the foundation...
Thanks.
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Pft! you just took the steam out of my reply! Nevermind :D
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plastic FRAMES not waxed plastic foundation........ :D
you too jack...... :D
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Okay, I got one... I don't like the wobblyness of plastic frames. Wood frames stay firm. Wood feels more natural in my hands. Wood smells good in the hive. I want to smell bees and wax and honey in the hive. Plastic frames compromise the good bee scent ;) 8)
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do you have a link to plastic frames without foundation?
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I don't like plastic frames. I'm foundationless but I could cut the plastic foundation out. I don't have a reason. I just don't.
Bought a super with plastic frames at a yard sale couple years ago. Kept the box, burnt the frames.
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Dangit Minz.. that was what I was gonna post...
I have some of everything.. minus plastic frames with no foundation :P
My plastic frames have plastic foundation, I have wooden frames with rite cell foundation, I have wood frames with wired wax, and wooden frames with No foundation..
My experience is that the bees will, under most circumstances draw the natural comb and or the wired wax almost completely before they ever touch the plastic right beside it. I do occasionally have a hive that decides to draw the plastic.. and I attribute that to them having been poisoned by Neonics or 24d etc...
As far as the plastic frames go.. I like the ease of use. Take them out of the box and drop them in the hive. Beyond that they seem to be long lasting if treated right. No excessive prying or leaving them out in the sunlight. I have not seen hive beetles yet, but have heard from multiple sources that the beetles LOVE the recesses in the plastic frames for hiding and keeping out of reach of the bees. I have had meeses chew wood frames clear in half, but have never had a plastic frame chewed much. Once something happens to them, an ear breaks or they warp, then they are DONE, there is no fixing them. Glue just doesnt seem to have the strength that they originally had. Gluing a wood frame often restores it to original strength.
A wood frame you can often fix, glue, or put in a new side bar, top bar etc, and keep on using the frame. Wood frames take more effort to assemble and put foundation in if you use foundation.
In my mind plastic is plastic. If your going to use plastic foundation then buying the entire frame in plastic saves time, labor, and sometimes even cost. I readily admit to completely enjoying opening the boxes of PF 120's I got from Mann Lake and dropping them into the hives.
They still cost me more than 2x8's, a saw blade, glue and nails.
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You can see by this plastic frame with the wood insert, how the bees have filled out the wood frame fully, but they will go to the plasic if they have to, at least this is evident in my hives.
Don't ask about how the little wood frame became intigrated into the plastic frame unless you want me to write a novel :D
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2F434taengd%2FDSCF9388.jpg&hash=f1a7b354a51cd6179cd1592d11081a684fb3525c) (http://postimg.cc/image/434taengd/)
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I prefer the grooved, wooden frames that accept ritecell. They don't warp the way plastic does. Wood frames weigh less, substantially less than plastic. Wooden frames hold up better when the bees have really stuck things together with propolis. there are fewer crevices for shb to hide in the wooden frames. Hands down, wooden frames for me. The only down side of the wooden frame with ritecell is that it is a challenge to cut some queen cells without damaging them. :)
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I run about 60% Pierco plastic frames and the rest wood and wired wax. My bees don't seem to mind drawing them out. I think that Pierco puts a fairly generous amount of wax on them. the way I see it the positive aspects of the plastic are: ease of assembly (none required), frames and foundation are square and flat (resulting in more even comb, easier inspections, and less rolled bees). Very easy to scrape, crush, and strain. Hold up well to extracting. The down side of plastic: aesthetically less appealing, hive beetles like the holes in the top, easier to break with a hive tool.
In my busy life, the plastic wins out.
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In my busy life, the plastic wins out.
Yep, me too. ;)
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I prefer the grooved, wooden frames that accept ritecell. They don't warp the way plastic does. Wood frames weigh less, substantially less than plastic. Wooden frames hold up better when the bees have really stuck things together with propolis. there are fewer crevices for shb to hide in the wooden frames. Hands down, wooden frames for me. The only down side of the wooden frame with ritecell is that it is a challenge to cut some queen cells without damaging them. :)
Wood frames with Pierco or Permadent, for the exact same reasons as Lee described.
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Bees are natural, wood in natural, plastic is manmade, nuff said. On a serious note, I had some plastic frames and my bees would not draw them out. I was, and still am, a novice beekeeper, and it may have been that they needed more wax on them. But for whatever reason, plastic did not work for me. I must have given a 150 plastic frames to another beekeeper. I think he gave them to a beginning beekeeper. Plastic didn't work for me.
Some pretty astute beekeepers use Pierco frames and foundation. The compromise could be Pierco foundation in wood frames.
I consider myself the best carpenter since Jesus, so I am prejudiced against plastic. :):)
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Wedge top and split bottom bars here. Never used plastic before so can't fairly compare them, but then I guess I never will be able to. Wood for me please!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSZssRWAtv8
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Steam gone here too! Ha! I knew G was gonna post that.... :)
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I agree with everything negative about putting plastic in a bee hive, kind of like mom trying to make me like caster oil :'(. I have also found that if you take a plumbers torch with a blue flame, it will clean plastic foundation right up. ;D Jack
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I come from the oil patch where everything is steel and take a few hundred thousand pounds of force. Our table napkins are cut from sheet metal. :):):)
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Well that vid tells it all!
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No disrespect intended here.
That frame was made from inferior plastic and or mistreated. I have not even had a plastic frame warp yet, much less look like that one. I bought some equipment that had a lot of plastic in the deeps, many over 4 years old, and they are still perfectly useable.. There are white and black plastic one piece frames. They scraped off very well and will be recoated by their new owner who does intend to reuse them.
I will not argue that they are easy to break the ears off of when they get older. I have broken ears off new frames, and as they get older it seems that they break off much easier.
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I agree about the video, that frame must have been put into a solar wax melter or something.
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A plastic frame shaped like that can only occur on a Tuesday, where the horizontal gravity graduate exceeds the angle of the dangle. ;)
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tuesdays... I was thinking Mondays.. only a day off!! ;D
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I have most my brood boxes with 4.9 plastic cell .
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/category/page19.html#!productInfo/3/
And for the honey supers{I use all deeps}I use rite cell wooden frame with plastic foundation.
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeeping-supplies/category/page17.html#!productInfo/3/
Plastic frames did not work well in my extractor{would bend } that's why I have wooden ones in my honey supers.
Plus I like to run some foundationless frames to make comb honey people just love comb in the honey.
I'm hoping the 4.9 cell will help with my war on VARROA. After this year I should have all brood boxes on 4.9 plastic cell frames.
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i am with scott on this.....
with my commercial mentor raising queens and experimenting and lots of nucs/hives passed between us, i inherited some of his plastic frames, now i know why i inherited them but.... be it accident or not, i have cycled them out. like scott said, never had them warp like the video suggests under normal conditions. i am not speaking of the plastic foundation, i am speaking of the plastic frames the foundation is in. i don't like plastic frames. they are not as durable, do get a little wonky, and are too flexible and as scott said, the ears break off, you have to trash the entire frame.
keep in mind everyone, we are helping out a new beek deciding whether or not to purchase these. zweefer, just go for wooden frames and pierco waxed foundation, or beeswax. you won't regret it. wood frames last a very long time, can be repaired, and if you are using plastic foundation, and the wood frame gets trashed, pop out the foundation and put it in a new frame, good to go.
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keep in mind everyone, we are helping out a new beek deciding whether or not to purchase these. zweefer, just go for wooden frames and pierco waxed foundation, or beeswax. you won't regret it. wood frames last a very long time, can be repaired, and if you are using plastic foundation, and the wood frame gets trashed, pop out the foundation and put it in a new frame, good to go.
Good point, sorry, I have a habit of getting carried off topic.. I am sure no one has noticed yet......
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scott we all get off topic, that's what's great about this forum. we might wander but we have fun. i think some folks here were confused a little about the question: plastic frames vs wood frames. (can't purchase plastic frames alone, they come with plastic foundation). you should have read me and zweefer's, and wades chat last night about this in the chat box, wanna talk total confusion? it was totally funny! it was some funny stuff!!!
anyways, you had a great point about that video and just wanted to say so!
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Thanks for everyone input!