Worldwide Beekeeping

Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: Jen on May 14, 2014, 06:55:06 pm

Title: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 14, 2014, 06:55:06 pm
Whom ever goes foundationless, let yourselves be known  :)
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Woody Roberts on May 14, 2014, 07:50:59 pm
Me
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 14, 2014, 08:14:47 pm
You?
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: alfredw on May 14, 2014, 08:45:12 pm
I do mostly foundationless.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: tbonekel on May 14, 2014, 08:54:49 pm
I'm making the conversion currently to foundationless
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: G3farms on May 14, 2014, 09:16:23 pm
Sometimes by accident, I will sometimes leave empty frames in the box that has the brood combs from a cut out.

Does putting a shallow frame of honey in a deep box and they finish building comb on the bottom mean I am half way foundation less?!?!  :-\
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 14, 2014, 10:01:18 pm
LOL G.....  I reckon that would count as half!!!     ;D

   You know I do mostly foundation-less Mrs. Jen.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 14, 2014, 10:38:51 pm
Yes, I knew that Mr. Scott  ;)  just wanted a head count and some opinions

Okay then, I need to order frames for my deep. It was either Apis or Ef that said just put waxed popsicle sticks in the slot on the top bar. I think he means to melt some wax and glue them into the slot.

So I need a different frame than the ones I have here where you insert wired wax with and secure with a shim at the top.

Oh! or wait! can I staple the popsicle sticks between the shim and the frame? Or, should I make things easy and just get the gadget the is designed for the foundationless fashion?

Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Bsweet on May 14, 2014, 10:39:20 pm
Got some shallows that I use for cut comb, start out with foundation. Once I harvest a frame it goes back without foundation, just about 1/4 - 1/2 inch of comb around the edges. Jim
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 14, 2014, 10:52:51 pm
Jen, click on the link, then choose style f.
It is Kelley's foundationless frame.

http://www.kelleybees.com/res/uploads/media//Frame-Style-Descriptions.pdf
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 14, 2014, 10:57:09 pm
I would like to make some cut comb, but I think I have enough on my plate still, so I'll think about that a little later. Like your idea Jim, Thanks!
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 14, 2014, 10:59:34 pm
You can use any frame as long as you can provide a guide.. Popsicle sticks etc.. I have seen people cut a milk carton into stips to use as guides. If you get the wedge type frames you can break the wedge out and turn it sideways and nail it back in that way for a guide.
   I have had frames of both wax and plastic that were messed up, so I ripped the foundation out and dropped the frame back in with NO guide. As long as they go back in between frames of drawn foundation they will usually fill the frame perfectly, even with no guide to go from.
   Paint stir sticks, pieces of plastic foundation cut down, anything that will give them a place to festoon from will usually work.
   My frames are cut to a point with two 45 degree angles and that serves the purpose well. Use the imagination, and take pictures!
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Woody Roberts on May 14, 2014, 11:03:03 pm
I use the wedge type frame made for wired foundation. Pop the wedge off, turn it on edge with three spots of glue.

I've used Popsicle sticks, 3/4" chamfer, paint stir sticks, little strips of foundation, wax and plastic and when dropped between two drawn frames nothing at all.

The wedge is the handiest for me because it comes with the frame. All of the above works just as well.

I didn't start out with the intention of going foundationless. I put a couple in so they could draw some drone comb. If you mix wax and plastic foundation in a hive with foundationless frames no matter where it's at they will draw all the foundationless first. The wax next and if forced to will finally draw the plastic.

This has been my experience with my bees, I can't speak for anyone else.

Yes I get a lot of drone comb. They raise drones in early then backfill it with honey.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 14, 2014, 11:05:20 pm
I can verify everything woody said with similar experience.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Woody Roberts on May 14, 2014, 11:05:48 pm
I do mostly foundationless.

Hey!
I just noticed your post count. Let me be the first to say welcome. :)
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 14, 2014, 11:09:57 pm
Indeed! Welcome AlfredW   !!!!
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: tecumseh on May 15, 2014, 04:24:40 am
not to rub anyone wrong here.... which is to say if this or that is your decision, that is perfectly ok by me.

I raise bee for a purpose.  originally this purpose was a small quantity of honey production for the local community to which a few years later I added the production of bees and queen for the local area and most recently to assist in research here at the Texas A&M Bee lab.  no foundation is imho in direct conflict with ALL of these purpose.  not so surprisingly the ideas behind no foundation sounds appealing but application almost never works out like some idea < and invariable the sales pitch of these ideas ALWAYS avoids the nasty detail of application.   even at the bee lab when folks do purely growth type studies small strips of started foundation are used in frames to give these bees at least something of a head start.   
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Woody Roberts on May 15, 2014, 05:48:07 am
Tec
I don't understand what your saying.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 09:44:01 am
not so surprisingly the ideas behind no foundation sounds appealing but application almost never works out like some idea < and invariable the sales pitch of these ideas ALWAYS avoids the nasty detail of application.


   Not quite sure I understand either...  I get the idea that you dislike foundation-less?   Like you said, I am OK with that. I do have to say that with the exception of trying to extract fresh comb, I have not had more issues than I did when I used all foundation, either plastic or wax.  I actually have LESS issues than I did with plastic, though probably a few more issues than with wax foundation. the trade off with the wax is that I have less time involved putting the wax in and wiring it, as well as less cost because I dont have to buy the wax foundation.  I have also found, in cleaning out old wired wax frames that I have a BUCKET of little wires. Cleaning out wired wax foundation is almost as annoying as installing it, at least when it comes to being spoiled by foundation-less..  I run my pocket knife around the frame and put it back in... takes about a minute and I dont have to have other frames on standby..
   The queen producer that lives a few miles from me has given me a lot of guff about using foundation-less. He said it JUST didn't work out for him..  After spending some time with him, I can understand why.. he farms and does the bees.. Honey and queen production..  he wants to snap in foundation, drop the frame in and GO...  he extracts the same way. fast..
   Foundation-less is NOT for everyone.  Each foundation style has advantages and disadvantages... well, maybe not wired wax... it only has one advantage, the rest are disadvantages :P    Jack likes the wax, Squirt and perry like plastic, Woody and I like foundation-less...
    I still have plastic, and wired wax in my hives. As time passes, the amount of plastic and wired wax are diminishing.. 

    I just don't see the downside, or as you said, the nasty detail of application?
   If you elaborate I may well agree with you, I just find the ease, cost and benefit out weigh the difficulty.
   Scott
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: riverbee on May 15, 2014, 10:52:59 am
and for those who keep top bar hives tec?

to answer jens question, i switched out wax frames to waxed plastic for ease of convenience.  i still have some wax frames in both deeps and supers. the only time i use foundation-less is for comb honey in a super.  i don't use any starter strips, just a bead of wax in the grooves to start, thereafter, after the comb is cut off, there is enough wax remaining on the frame to give the bees a good start.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 15, 2014, 10:58:30 am
What tec is saying needs to be divided between experienced and inexperienced beeks. He is saying the learning curve for a new beek is steep enough to make many, "maybe most", newbees throw in the towel. They put in starter strips of some kind,set the hive down, and add a package and queen. Check in one week and she is out and laying. Check again in 30 days and finds a labyrinth of comb that will have to be totally removed. It's like queen excluders. Be prepared to pay a high tuition to learn to use excluders or foundationless.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: efmesch on May 15, 2014, 11:14:32 am
To Alfred: a big WELCOME.  Keep posting.
To Jen: Mostly I use foundation.  Occasionally, if I'm out of foundation, I'll go foundationless.  The last few weeks, when I've been low on foundation, I've been using half a sheet per frame---But I always use wired frames. Even if I don't have foundation I want the bees to build with the wires in the mid-rib of the combs, otheriwse I have problems of the combs tearing out of the frames during extraction.
Woody and Lazy: What Tec is saying is "USE FOUNDATION--EVERYBODY".
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 15, 2014, 11:37:02 am
""What Tec is saying is "USE FOUNDATION--EVERYBODY".""

I would add "If you want the fewest headaches and the smoothest ride."
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 12:48:20 pm
What tec is saying needs to be divided between experienced and inexperienced beeks. He is saying the learning curve for a new beek is steep enough to make many, "maybe most", newbees throw in the towel. They put in starter strips of some kind,set the hive down, and add a package and queen. Check in one week and she is out and laying. Check again in 30 days and finds a labyrinth of comb that will have to be totally removed. It's like queen excluders. Be prepared to pay a high tuition to learn to use excluders or foundationless.


   I cant argue that Iddee...   A quote from my website;

  I get a lot of resistance when saying I wish I had started with foundation-less. Most saying that it will ruin a beginning beekeeper..
   I suppose there is some merit to that. It does take a little different management and care. The FIRST partially drawn foundation-less frame I EVER pulled out of a hive fell off the frame and landed on my boot. The bees were NOT impressed! Handling them requires a different mindset and technique. Once they are well attached and have started to harden, they are no more difficult to deal with than wax foundation. I DO wish I had started out using them, but I am a determined individual that is hard to discourage when doing something I enjoy. I know I would not have given up because of a couple of messed up combs, but will agree that it may not be for everyone, especially starting out from scratch.

   I DO argue the point about more headaches. Fixing wonky comb is way easier with foundation-less, it requires a rubber band or two..

   Fixing foundation?

  Wood with plastic foundation pictured below. The corner pulled apart at some point so the bees "Fixed it"  In order for me to fix it, i have to scrape and dig the groove out, cut the wax away from the plastic so i can slide it back into place, then re glue and nail the frame, or replace the bottom bar entirely. Can it be done?  Yep, but I have found that the bees dont like to draw over the plastic once it has been scraped, so it will also require some melted wax for them to return it to a pristine frame.
   
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs16.postimg.cc%2F6s91dtjoh%2FDSCF0275.jpg&hash=84804ce6be7ce51060af8f4f397cf2313ca4f914) (http://postimg.cc/image/6s91dtjoh/)

   This one is just drawn in drone comb..   I did scrape it the first time and gave it back, they made a mess over the scraped part, drawing some of it and chewing the wax off other parts, and they STILL made what they rebuilt into drone comb. The second time, I scraped the frame CLEAN, and re waxed the frame, then gave it back to them... and this is what they did.. They built even more drone comb than it had originally over top of large cell plastic...

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.postimg.cc%2Fd5lsxhfjf%2FDSCF0273.jpg&hash=fe397213a775d5cd735432a9380dbc7b4f741cd1) (http://postimg.cc/image/d5lsxhfjf/)

   And then we have a warped wax frame.  Not sure how it got warped like that, got bumped or dropped etc.. what i am sure of is that its a little more difficult to go through and snip wires to cut out the warped part and get it straightened back up. Over half of it gets buggered up when making the attempt. Not so sure it would be less work for them than drawing a new frame..
   Edit.. OOPS wrong picture, but my point is the same.

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs17.postimg.cc%2Fvd1566qyj%2FDSCF0311.jpg&hash=87fa6e3a18e068b3ff3287157c2c65cf71854d87) (http://postimg.cc/image/vd1566qyj/)

   With foundation-less.. I can simply cut out the bad part and give it back. I can cut out the bad part and rubber band it into the frame correctly. When the three to five year rotation time is up, I can cut out the old comb and give them the frame back.  In the event you don't like all the drone comb they build? Have the nuc's or young colonies in your yard draw out new frames, they will build worker comb, not drone comb.
   This comb is already attached at the bottom, and can be handled as you would any other frame

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs4.postimg.cc%2Fis4e1f4jd%2FDSCF0344.jpg&hash=bdd91bdfafb9fb822fc82b6200c934dc88efc027) (http://postimg.cc/image/is4e1f4jd/)

    Now I am going to agree, that plastic has advantages in sturdiness and simplicity of installation and use, As well as having an advantage in straight smooth comb. Right up until something goes wrong with it, OR, it needs to be rotated out, scraped clean and re waxed.
   Plastic/plastic frames are even easier to deal with, until they get propolised in, then they flex a lot and ears break when yo do need to pry on them a bit.
   Wood/Wired wax Isnt a lot different than foundation-less except that you have the TIME to assemble them, and you have to deal with wires. It NEVER fails that the queen cell i found ws DIRECTLY over top of a wire, so i have to get the side cutters out to clip said wire. Fixing them is as easy as removing the bad spots between the wires... but.. wait, isnt that foundation-less now? Then there is also the TIME in removing the old wax and installing new, and what do you do with several thousand little pieces of wire?

   I will do a vid of extracting the foundation-less frames. I have found it much easier since I plugged the old brush type electric motor into this;

(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs16.postimg.cc%2Fx990l0iqp%2F31_R2_BIOAx_OL.jpg&hash=27e259c08594546bfecbebdbdb530ef846e65785) (http://postimg.cc/image/x990l0iqp/)

   In all honesty, I have no argument about using ANY foundation type, as long as it works for YOU.  I just cant abide not arguing the advantages of saving money on foundation.   ;D


Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 02:25:59 pm
Very Informative thread! Learned a lot and was able to make a plan for myself ~ Thanks Everyone~


Scott- re; post #18

Sounds convincing to me. I would like to give it a go when my hives are strong and stable again, maybe next year ~
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 15, 2014, 03:37:11 pm
I could counter each statement, but why? Improper installation will always cause problems anywhere.
Properly set up wax with wires at the proper time will result in beautiful frames with less trouble in the hive.
Yes, it is more work before installing bees, but in my opinion, well worth the cost and effort for a new beek.
Experienced beeks can do many things that would totally confuse and discourage a newbee.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 03:57:17 pm
I agree with that Iddee, for a new beek it would be far too confusing without a constant mentor. I like the idea that the bees can work the way they were born to work. I really love their own architecture ~ it's the artist in me, can't help it  ;) 8)
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 04:00:46 pm
I could counter each statement, but why?
   So those good folks reading get the whole picture.

Improper installation will always cause problems anywhere.
Properly set up wax with wires at the proper time will result in beautiful frames with less trouble in the hive.

   Less trouble than properly set up and spaced foundation-less frames?  Perhaps..... I have had equally bad messes either way. I can't honestly say I have had less with foundation than foundation-less. One issue with all new foundation is that the bees decide to draw one side of a frame really deep into the still empty frame opposite it, but, they can do the same thing with two frames with no foundation...

Yes, it is more work before installing bees, but in my opinion, well worth the cost and effort for a new beek.
Experienced beeks can do many things that would totally confuse and discourage a newbee.

  Totally agree.  Were we talking about a new beekeeper?
    ;D
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 04:17:41 pm
Iddee - ""I could counter each statement, but why?''

Scott - ""So those good folks reading get the whole picture.""

HULLO! YA!  I've been at it into my fourth year now. I was steered down too many wrong roads the first three, that's why my frames are in the mess that they are, But they're getting better and better due to all the 'whole picture' advice I get on this forum. And I'm pretty darned sure that all of my bees would have been up and gone by now if not for this forum. Still crossing my fingers tho ~

 ;) 8)


Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: shinjak on May 15, 2014, 04:49:35 pm
I am a beginner and have chosen to go foundationless. Hopefully it is a decision I will not regret. But Scott's arguments for foundationless far outweigh anybody's argument against it in my book. Foundation is just one more thing to be dependent on the bee catalogs for, and I am really trying to eliminate those dependencies. But I may eat those words, so stay tuned.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 05:01:33 pm
Hey Shin ~ I applaud your decision!  I think you can go foundation-less is you have someone with you like Scott aka LazyBkpr. Pm him when you need help, he's a Great and patient teacher. No doubt I'll be doing the same when I get to that point.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: barry42001 on May 15, 2014, 05:08:10 pm
everything depends on what you're trying to accomplish with your bees, and your level of experience with bees. I personally stick with what I have learned. I use foundation for everything no exceptions. not all that long ago the only thing I used was crimped wire foundation, in both the breed chambers and the extracting Supers. it wasn't until this year when I got a little lazy, ordered mann lake complete hide kits, and deep supers. they come painted and assembled, frames are wood, with cellrite foundation. it took a little bit for the bees start working on it, now there's not a problem. the whether was crimp wired foundation or cellrite I never got wonky comb, a little bit of burr comb, but don't we all.
Plasticell is junk. there is a definite time and convenience factor using foundation and having relatively perfect comes. and to me more importantly the bees will not be able, to repurpose the comb into unwanted drone comb.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 05:13:49 pm
LOL Shinjack..

    There IS merit in what Iddee is saying, but getting him to elaborate is a lot like the struggle I used to go through to get information from my mentor.
   If your determined, an occasional mess wont deter you. Get rubber bands and keep them handy. If they make a mess, cut the comb loose, straighten it, rubber band it in place and put it back in, they will fix it up in no time, even the spots you squish with your fingers handling it. To me, it is part of the fun and the challenge.  If I fix a comb, I struggle NOT to go back in two days and see if they have it all fixed yet...  Every day is filled with some form of excitement and interest.


 Barry, did you look at the pictures above?  If they WANT drone comb, it doesnt matter what you have in there for foundation..   Plasticell? Is that the stuff that has the plastic shim between the wax with the metal ends?  If it is, then I agree completely. I really dont like that stuff.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 05:20:33 pm
I don't want any plastic whatsoever! I've got that project of switching out going all the time!

Still.. foundationless feels right to me ~
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 15, 2014, 06:06:07 pm
""Were we talking about a new beekeeper?""

Who else can possibly "start out" with foundationless??

""If your determined, an occasional mess wont deter you. Get rubber bands and keep them handy.""

FOR SURE. That's my main point. Thanks, Scott, you said it all for me.

Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 07:23:38 pm
hehe, rubber bands sure beat replacing the frame or scraping and re waxing..   I will degress now!!  dont want Iddee driving up here, at least carrying a baseball bat.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 15, 2014, 08:23:14 pm
Rubber banding every few days may be better than installing new wax every 5 years to you, but it sure ain't to me.
Of course, you don't do it every few days. You aren't just beginning. I think it's a safe bet you got plenty of rubber banding practice when you began, tho.

The only way i will drive that far is if you have a beer truck parked in the yard.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 08:30:26 pm
Is it my imagination? or is Mr. Wizard being a snarky pants today?...
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 15, 2014, 08:42:31 pm
Just teasing scott, jen. It's fun when he says boys are more masculine and I say girls are more feminine, then watching his reactions.  :laugh:

He's speaking of old beeks and I'm talking newbees. Totally different ballgame.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 08:58:56 pm
hehe, I was actually pushing him a bit trying to get him to say more. I do owe him you know.

   I will refer back to what I have on my website..   

    I get a lot of resistance when saying I wish I had started with foundation-less. Most saying that it will ruin a beginning beekeeper..
   I suppose there is some merit to that.

   http://outyard.weebly.com/frames.html

    So despite all the arguing, I do agree.... with ALMOST all of what he says     ;D
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 15, 2014, 09:06:31 pm
Darn, he's done killed the argument. :P
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 09:12:46 pm
Shucks! Just when I was gettin' my dukes up!

Scott- ""I get a lot of resistance when saying I wish I had started with foundation-less. Most saying that it will ruin a beginning beekeeper..   I suppose there is some merit to that.""

That's why and I strongly suggested to shinjak to stay close with you, and the others that are going foundationless for mentor help ~ So that more beginners can be successful at foundation-less. just sayin
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: shinjak on May 15, 2014, 09:35:54 pm
Thanks for the encouragement Jen. Scott, I will go buy some rubber bands tomorrow in anticipation of any boo boos (btw, great advice). I will also keep a bread knife handy to cut the comb. I was given advice by a local beek to make sure my hives are level, so I guess I will be finding out the results of the accuracy of my level the next time I crack open the hives.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 09:41:33 pm
  I will certainly try to help...
   Iddee, I had quite a bit more lined out.. Like.. I have fixed ten TIMES the amount of bad foundation that i have Foundation-less.. of course, that IS no lie, so long as I leave out the fact I have worked with foundation ten times longer..  :P
   But there comes a time when every man must stand down.  When faced by Blue and his brothers, OR the head admin who carries a big hammer..      ;D

   Shinjack;
   Level is good.  Slight deviation wont hurt.. a quarter inch from one side to the other, and front to back doesnt matter, the hive should be tilted a bit forward to let moisture run out..  Feel free to check my website under the frames section in do it yourself I have a section on making frames, and about half way down Is the section on using foundation-less.. as ALWAYS, read, and adapt to suit how you want to keep bees.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 10:15:43 pm
I'm not afraid of the head admins hammer, just a kisshug patpatpat melts him like butter ~ ya otta try it sometime  :D
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 10:41:44 pm
ummm...  ONLY if he isnt close ......
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: iddee on May 15, 2014, 10:59:07 pm
NO, NO, NO. It only works with certain ones. He's not one of them. In fact, no HE is the right type.  :o  :o  :o
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 15, 2014, 11:01:49 pm
How deep did you say that Lake was Iddee?
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Riverrat on May 15, 2014, 11:04:19 pm
I put the last swarm I caught on foundationless frames. ITs a lot more work and I wouldnt recommend it for a beginner. Im have problems enough for a 10 year veteran keeping bees
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: Jen on May 15, 2014, 11:43:35 pm
Good Gravy ~ rolling eyes ~
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: jb63 on May 16, 2014, 12:09:10 am
I'm half and half.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: apisbees on May 17, 2014, 03:35:25 pm
I do mostly foundationless.

Yes welcome to the forum and contributing to the discussions.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: apisbees on May 17, 2014, 04:11:59 pm
hehe, I was actually pushing him a bit trying to get him to say more. I do owe him you know.

   I will refer back to what I have on my website..   

    I get a lot of resistance when saying I wish I had started with foundation-less. Most saying that it will ruin a beginning beekeeper..
   I suppose there is some merit to that.

   http://outyard.weebly.com/frames.html

    So despite all the arguing, I do agree.... with ALMOST all of what he says     ;D

On LazyBkpr website he has a picture of a beautiful drawn partially filled frame with nectar
http://outyard.weebly.com/uploads/2/5/5/8/25581043/773177_orig.jpg
With newly drawn frames and not providing any cross wiring to support the wax I think you may find that when you use your new radial extractor on these frames you may have an issue with them collapsing as the bees do not readily attach the comb to the bottom of the frame but like to leave a bee space walk way.
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: LazyBkpr on May 17, 2014, 09:16:04 pm
With each inspection the frames get rotated over one frame. I pull the edge frame, move each frame over as it is inspected, and put the edge frame in on the other side. As the frames become "primary" or in the middle of the hive they usually finish filling them in.. Or at least attach them in several places.
   These are brood frames, so attaching is less important..  however, With the honey frames - with the radial extractor I have used in the past, it is a matter of being a bit careful and NOT turning it up to wow until some of the honey has been spun out, then increasing the speed..   Yes, turning it "on" with a full frame almost guarantees a blow out. I only lost two frames last year, hopefully I lose no more this year...  The wife prefers they all blow out so I can melt them down for wax...   
Title: Re: Who Goes Foundationless On This Forum
Post by: apisbees on May 18, 2014, 03:00:21 am
I can see her point fresh wax is lighter in color than wax a few years older and I bet you couldn't geve her the wax from the old brood combs.
Where I find i have the most problem is if some of the honey is granulated in the comb.

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