Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: crazy8days on May 18, 2014, 01:15:09 pm
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It's been a week since I checked my hives. Been cold and rainy. Just finished checking my 4 hives. 3 out of 4 have swarm cell galore. My plan was to split when my queens arrive but that won't be till first of June. I have 1 swarm trap on site about 150' away. What should I do? All I have done today was reverse boxes. That lower had bees but not much in eggs. Should I get a few more swarm traps out here? Get them closer? Hope they use them? I read walk away splits aren't the greatest. Most times I can find the queens. Not today. Not a one! Help!
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Well Crazy... it will be interesting to hear this thread, cause some say leave the swarm cells, and some say get rid of all but one, and some say when you introduce you new queens get rid of all swarm cells. I'll chime in along the way.
One of my hive that came from one of my swarms had 29 loaded queen cells... :o
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Split and put cells in both halves, or all 3, depending on how many hives you want.
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Yep what Iddee said. When splitting a hive ready to swarm you have a better chance of 2 surviving hives than a walk away split where you are letting them build queen cells after the split. If hives are heavy in bees you can split into 2, 3, or even 4 nucs at times. At this point you have 2 choices split and hope they make it or let them swarm and most like lose the swarm.
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Crazy- "'Just finished checking my 4 hives. 3 out of 4 have swarm cell galore."'
Iddee, not sure you read this right... he said the 3 out of 4 hives have swarm cells galore! Lots of swarm cells!
Crazy- Swarm traps would be fine, but better get them baited and out there so the scout bees can find them well before they decide to swarm, no one knows when that will happen.
Here's a thought: You could split two or three times right now, putting swarm cells into each nuc, if a queen hatches, so be it. Then when your queens come, you will have to get the queens and queen cells out of the nucs, Absolutely All Of Them, leave the nucs queenless for 24 or so hours. Then introduce your new queens.
I'm also still listening for other advice.
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Is there a good distance from the hives to put a swarm trap? Will they move to the next empty hive in the yard, or is there a minimum distance from the hives to place traps?
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So should I split the 3 hives in half? Or make 1 nuc off each or a couple nucs? Take the queen to another bee yard? 1 frame with queen cells in each nuc. Get rid of rest? I've never split a hive!
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Greg- ""Will they move to the next empty hive in the yard, or is there a minimum distance from the hives to place traps?""
?? Whaaaaat ??
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They prefer to go a distance from home.
You can split into as many nucs as you want, as long as you have cells for each and 3 frames of brood and supplies.
If you find the queen, remove her from the original location. Leave cells in the original location. You can move her 10 feet or across the field. Doesn't matter. I never destroy swarm cells. The bees are capable. A 3 frame nuc will not swarm, even if it has multiple cells
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I would find and locate the queen(s), set them up in 5 frame nucs with frames (with no queen cells) of bees, and then split what's left up into 2 and leave a couple cells in each.
If they have cells on the go, the original queens are gonna leave so grab them while you can.
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Perry, splitting what's left do I need to move these hives to a different location? Foraging bees?
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Foragers will go back to the main hive, if you DONT move them to another yard, so make sure to feed them and reduce the entrances. If you can take them somewhere else for a week it will keep the foragers in those boxes, then you could move them back home.
I'd do what Iddee and Perry said. Split out the old queens and divide the rest up evenly. If you have new queens coming, you can always replace the old queens, or a few of the new ones if the queens you have ordered are special.. vsh etc... You can also OFF a couple of those swarm queens and recombine the nuc you split off to bring the original hives back to being production hives. If any of the new queens dont seem to be doing well you can recombine etc, etc... The main thing at the moment is preventing swarming.
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Greg- ""Will they move to the next empty hive in the yard, or is there a minimum distance from the hives to place traps?""
?? Whaaaaat ??
If I have a swarm trap close to the hive that will swarm, will they go next door to the baited trap or does the baited trap have to be 100 feet away before they'd be interestd?
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Crazy- ""splitting what's left do I need to move these hives to a different location? Foraging bees?""
I didn't move my hives further than right here in this pic. I just stacked them next to each other and put the 'stick, twig, leaf' thing loosely over the entrance at dusk, so the foraging bees would reorient in the morning. It Worked!
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs18.postimg.cc%2Fsn87tj7ol%2FDSCF9492.jpg&hash=eafb88da41843ada5985f819e7cde150b29ae701) (http://postimg.cc/image/sn87tj7ol/)
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How in the heck do you ever get any honey if you have to split every year!!! Season 3 for me isn't starting off to well. I want to expand so I can produce more honey. But, if every spring I have to split how? All my queens are last years stock. Wheres the face icon smashing it's head in the wall!!!!! GRR!
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From a guy whose first bees will not be here for a few more weeks...
It is good practice to have swarm traps set out about the bee yard in any case.
I would be wondering why so many colonies are planning swarming. Cold and rainy? Sounds like it could be a shortage of food so the bees are figuring to find greener (and sunnier) pastures. I would be checking to ensure lots of stores. If stores are meager, some feeding might be in order.
Now that swarming arrangements are under way, swarm them! Trying to prevent swarming is futile. Ask Jen. The objective is to let them swarm by your rules. Grab the queens and a few frames and put them in a new boxes. There, the queens will be happy (notwithstanding the stores point above). Make nucs out of the rest and let them amuse themselves making queens until your purchased queens arrive. Don't forget, you only need loads of bees in each hive during the main honey flow. The rest of the time only enough to look after the queen are required.
Combine nucs when new queens arrive or for the honey flow. Make sure they have food now though.
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How in the heck do you ever get any honey if you have to split every year!!! Season 3 for me isn't starting off to well. I want to expand so I can produce more honey. But, if every spring I have to split how? All my queens are last years stock. Wheres the face icon smashing it's head in the wall!!!!! GRR!
Just because you split doesn't mean they hives have to stay split. Split to manage swarming and, when the main honey flows comes, pull the queens and combine as necessary to make monster hives. You can save the queens you pulled in little nucs are pinch them and rely on the new queens that will be made during the honey flow. You get a lot more honey this way.
If all of your queens are from last year, that is probably part of the problem. Year two, they get wanderlust. Simple solution is as mentioned before - swarm them - by your rules.
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Year two, they get wanderlust. Simple solution is as mentioned before - swarm them - by your rules.
:yes: :yes: :yes:
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Ok, so grab the queen and 3 frames of brood. 1 frame of honey, 1 frame of pollen. Make nuc for each swarming hive. Out of the "mother" hive split in 2 single deeps. Divide evenly with swarm cells. If I split during the day all the foragers will go back to the main hive. So, split with just nurse bees need fed. Right?
Now, these hives have supers on them. What should I do with them? Leave them on the hives with foragers?
My bee yard has limited space. I was thinking about taking the 3 nucs to my house. Till I can get my new bee yard established. Nectar flow is already on. Dandelions are close to being done for. Trees are starting. I would like to keep the nucs to build on their own. Can the main split be combined so they can produce honey? How long do I need to wait to combined?
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I think we need to be sure we understand the conditions in your bee yard and your objectives. As I understand it, the weather is rainy and cold, the main (is it the main?) nectar flow is getting under way, your main objective is to produce some honey and your secondary objective is to grow as you go.
If the above is correct, you do not want to reduce your colony size any more than absolutely necessary else you will compromise honey production.. What is absolutely necessary is to make the queen think she has successfully swarmed. Hence, pull her out and make a nuc. Unless the weather is unusually cold for the season, I don't think you need to put three frames of brood in the nuc. One frame may be enough along with some stores, an empty frame or two and enough bees to look after the queen and brood. Do not put any swarm cells in the nucs else you will defeat your purpose. It would be a very good idea to feed the nucs.
Do not split the deeps but, rather, either leave them intact or leave the strongest hive and combine the six remaining deeps into two three deep hives. Leave honey supers on. I would off all but two or three swarm cells in each hive, which will keep the bees happy until your purchased queens turn up. A few bees will look after the few swarm cells and a lot of bees will make honey, which will be surplus because there is only a limited amount of brood to consuming it.
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6 days ago I made nucs with swarm cells. Brought the nucs home. An hour ago one of my hives got really busy. Neighbors yard had thousands of bees flying around. I now have a small swarm of bees in the neighbors yard. I thought at first I was seeing a queen mating flight. Now, I'm wondering if the scent of the hives brought in a swarm of bees from elsewhere or if these are my bees. My hive is now calm.
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WTHECK! I found another swarm of bees developing in the other neighbors tree! I have swarm #1 in a nuc. #2 is 25' up. So, I placed a swarm trap 2 trees over 8' up. This looks like another small swarm. I know when I made my nucs I didn't add the old queen. Would my new queens hatch and take part of the nuc?
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Hive #1 is beeing a booger to get in a box. It was a easy shake. Cracked the lid but many of the bees went back to the limb. Did the process over and over. Can't find the queen at all.
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How many swarm cells in each nuc?
While it unlikely they would swarm from a nuc after being split, I do know a Lovely Lady that had worse going on with bees intent on swarming....
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;) so far, knock on my head, peace reigns in the queendom ~
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I would say cast swarms, swarms with virgin queens. You have a crowded hive with a plugged up brood nest because of the intense dandelion flow and the bees decided to start swarm preparations. Now you split the hive and make nucs, but if the nucs are assembled so they are packed with bees, with the frames full of brood, honey, and pollen. You haven't addressed the problem that caused the bees to start the swarming process. So the bees will protect the other cells in the nuc from the first queen that emerges and they will swarm from the nuc with a virgin queen.
I do not agree with some of the advice given above. The queen in the hive that is being forced to swarm because the bees as a general population find it to crowded, lack of queen pheromone, bad weather or poor flow and to many idol bees with nothing to do in the hive, or any other reason, is the population producer in the hive. To keep the bee population in the bee yard increasing the queen that is pulled to stop the hive from swarming should be given all the resources so that she can continue to lay at her maximum rate. I leave her with 6 or 7 frames of brood and bees to cover 9 or 10 frames, and place a empty brood super on top. This will give her space to lay, bees to support her full laying potential. In 4 to 5 weeks this hive will be back at full strength and ready for the main honey flow.
Sorry Iddee but I cull swarm cells. If I graft and raise cells I only place one cell in each nuc or hive that I want a queen raised in. Before I place the cells in the hive I will reject any cells that are smaller than the others, as this could be an indication that the cell was not feed as well as the other cells. In the hive the bees start to build cells over a number of days so a caped cell could be anywhere from 9 days (just capped) to 16 days (ready to emerge) old, that is one week. The cells are drawn out and capped with new wax which is white, as the cells age they get darker in color, and just before they are about to emerge the bees remove some of the wax from the tip of the cell so it is easier for the queen to release herself. With this knowledge in mind when I come across swarm cells I will cull all that are not capped as they are over 7 days away from emerging. The building of cells to this stage will not have effected the queen or caused her to slow down her laying yet. Next I will cull any cells that are short or small, small cell could be stunted queen. Next I will look for indication of the age of the cells, darker = older so I will cull light ones before the darker cells. I also consider location of the cell on the frame, when I add a cell to a nuc we place it up between the top bars where the bees are clustering. If the cells are along the bottom of the frame you need to make sure there are ample bees to care for the cells and keep them incubated. And for the most part I only place 1 cell in any nuc or leave 1 cell in any hive. I try to insure that it is a good mature cell, hasn't been shaken or bumped turned up side down. And placed in the nuc so the bees are assured to continue to keep it warm and care for it.
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Whew Apis, that is a lot of info there ~
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No need to say sorry to me. I won't heed the suggestion. You can say sorry to the hundreds of newbees who listen to you and end up with their only hive being queenless.