Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => General Beekeeping => Topic started by: tedh on May 21, 2014, 06:14:22 pm
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Hi Everyone,
In my defense, I have been doing searches, but I can't seem to find the answers to a couple of questions. My hive is brand new, brand new plasticell foundation, and brand new bees (installed last Friday night), in other words the bees are starting from almost scratch. The queen was released Sunday night. I'm wondering if anyone can give me a ball park time on when I might expect her to be laying. The bees are drawing wax on the center two frames but I'm not sure how many cells are needed for queen to lay. We opened Josh's hive last evening and they are storing pollen and syrup but no brood cells that we could see. Any ideas when we might expect some egg/brood cells?
Also my hive is in direct sun from sunup until about 6:00 PM. The only opening on the hive is the front door and I've noticed there are usually a few bees in the afternoon fanning the entrance. Are the bees telling me they need a little more ventilation? Should I just take a chill pill and be patient? Thanks, Ted
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You should be able to see brood Sunday or Monday.
It is probably there now as eggs.
Ventilation is fine. They are reducing the water in the nectar.
Yes, chill, new papa, all is well. :D
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Hey no offense taken. I think it kind of depends on if there is a heavy flow or not. Are you feeding?
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Yes, we're using 1:1 sugar water and pollen patties. Ted
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I have noticed this past week that my 3 recent swarms, while given fully drawn comb to start with, commenced to nectar collection first. And yours, still need to draw the comb. So, they may take a few days like Iddee said.
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I cant add too much to that.. If you look at the comb they are making, and the cells seem to be all filled with nectar or the syrup you are feeding, let them empty the jar and wait two or three days to give them another jar. let them use a bit of what they have stored and give the queen more laying room.
New packages can be gluttons. If you give them a gallon they will take a gallon, and put it in every cell they have. Make sure they get what they need, but try to keep them from plugging out the new comb. The packages I installed from Tim have 4 drawn combs. I gave them two quarts each, they took it all in two days. I left the jars empty until this afternoon and gave them another quart each. I will check them on Saturday to see if they are using it all or storing some of it. Still a fair flow going on. If they are using most of it I will continue to give them more. If I find most of it stored in the combs I will stop and make them use it before I give them more.
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Rather than flood and famine, I think tecumseh recommends putting about 3 small holes in the lid of the jar to keep a slow steady flow into the hive. Enough the feed them, but not enough to store much if any. He calls it trickle feeding.
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That may actually help.......
I have a few commercial lids with about 20 TINY holes in them.. My lids have 4 to 5 holes that are slightly larger... I will go steel some lids from my wife and try with three holes. Like the idea so much I may do only two holes.. want them to have the syrup but dont want them storing much of it. Thanks for the tip Iddee!
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Okay. So here's my plan. I'll remove the 4 quart jars with factory lids (as Lazy said they have about 20 holes in them) and replace with one quart jar and canning lid with 3 tiny holes (made with a thumb tack). Sound okay? Also I noticed a few tiny ants on the hive's front porch. Is that a problem? Thank you all for the input.
"I've decided that one of the problems with trying to do something that I know nothing about is that I don't even know what questions to ask". He says, as he hangs his head. Ted
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Oh yeah, and I'll sit patiently and wait until Monday to check for brood cells. Ted
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Ants aren't a problem until they number in the hundreds.
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"I've decided that one of the problems with trying to do something that I know nothing about is that I don't even know what questions to ask". He says, as he hangs his head. Ted"
.............. :D doesn't matter ted, just fire away, and ramble, but while you are rambling, maybe give us a clue or two most of us are pretty good at figuring out what you are talking about, and if we don't, well we just ask more questions!........ :D
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I almost always use those very small nails you use to build frames with for punching the holes in the lid. 3 to 5 seems like a good number to me.
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Hi Everyone,
Well, Iddee, you hit the nail right on the head! We checked our hives last evening and there they were, capped brood! Yes, capped brood and MANY cells of larva/ pupa and capped syrup! How cool is that? We're both SO excited! Again, I have this "Look at what we did!" feeling. I'm beginning to think that beekeeping is like gardening. Both the seeds and the bees know what to do, and we as gardeners/beekeepers merely provide an environment for them to do what it is that they do. But still, "Lookit what we did!" Wayyyyy cool! Ted
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Good to see the excitement !!! ;D
Great to hear their working for you.
Now be patient while they grow. Will be nice to see the increased excitement when you get your first taste of the "crop" :D
Then the addiction grows :laugh: :laugh:
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Thanks Garden. Patience, yes, I need to hurry up and get some patience! :laugh: Ted
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Good deal!!
Taking credit for what your bees do? Take credit where credit is due!
I don't think there are many beekeepers who were not excited when they saw their fist bees doing well.
Hope to see you guys this weekend. Be ready to look at bees. 20 + new hives to go through. Packages, nucs, cut outs and splits to look at. Two or three were making queens and they should be laying by now. Last one to see the newest queen has to grill the burgers.
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LazyBkpr: Didn't expect you to feed us too! But if you really want to ;D. What can we bring to the table? Looking forward to Saturday! Ted
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Whatever you want to drink!!
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and i hope you two will have pix to share?!
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hrm... If I give the wife the camera...maybe that will keep her from thinking about harming us..... Having friends and company flee in terror when my wife shows up is never fun. O:-)
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Hi Everybody,
We checked the hives last evening and I have a couple more questions that probably don't deserve they're own topic soooo...
FIRST: I have my hive on a large round cement pad where a grain bin used to be. The hive is up on 3 cement blocks. Should the holes on the blocks be up? That's the way they are. My thinking was the holes on the blocks would create an air pocket that may help with insulation. Should the holes be horizontal to allow for air flow and keeping moisture down? Does it even matter?
SECOND: Josh's hive is definitely the stronger of the two. He has more bees, more drawn out frames, more capped brood, larva, etc. We are talking about taking one frame (with capped brood, larva, (and eggs?)) bees and all and installing in my weaker hive. Josh is concerned that we may inadvertently take his queen. I think we could avoid this but... Josh has also mentioned concern about the bees being older (from packages) and possible hostilities between bees from two colonies being combined. After talking with Scott last week I don't think this will happen but... If we do add one frame from Josh's hive to mine should we do that today or wait until next week when we are scheduled to open the hives again? I don't see this as an emergency. As background info, I do have 3 full frames of capped brood, larva, etc. and a couple more frames partially filled. We expect bees to emerge sometime this week as the queens were released 3 weeks ago this Sunday. The bees were installed on undrawn plasticell foundation. Hmmm, I think that's all I got. Any thoughts? Ted
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#1 - Doesn't really matter, six of one and a half dozen of the other so to speak.
#1 - I'm not up to date on the thread so forgive me if I've missed something. If the two hives are located close to one another, you could simply switch their positions during the height of the day, thereby giving the weaker hive an instant boost in population.
You could also just move one frame of well capped brood, minus the bees. Nurse bees (ones usually located on open brood frames) have no particulat allegiance to a colony and are readily accepted into most other hives without issue.
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It is exciting when you see your first eggs. But when you raise your first queen and see her brood, boy howdy!
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Thanks Perry! The hives are 8 to 10 miles apart. How would I go about removing bees from the frame of well capped brood? Also, if memory serves, the frames all had brood in different stages of development. I don't recall any frames with only capped brood. I wonder if we should just wait and see what happens in this next week. I fully expect Josh's hive to EXPLODE while mine should show at least an increase in bee numbers.
I haven't actually SEEN eggs yet. What with my eyesight, the veil, and not much experience. But, I keep on looking! Who knows, maybe someday I'll raise a queen! Right now that seems like a loooooong way down the road! Ted
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PATIENCE.......
Give it 2 more weeks, then decide if it needs help.
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iddee: I actually laughed right out loud when I read that! Okay man, patience it is. Thanks, Ted
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Hi Ted :) Iddee has talked to me IN CAPITAL LETTERS as well ~ And one time he ordered me to pack my bags and take a vaca from the bees! :D
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"I haven't actually SEEN eggs yet. What with my eyesight, the veil, and not much experience."
ted, for some of us this requires cheaters and a magnifying lens........ :D i think some beeks here use a small flashlight? or get your back to the sun and hold the frame with the sun shining on it. ;)
ps jen we don't talk in cap letters unless we are trying to get a point across to some of us who are hard heads or are not familiar with patience.......and you definitely needed the vacation...... :D
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Ha! and that is exacty what I did! It was incredible how much I got done around the house when not chasing crazy swarms ~ snark
And now that there's a big flow going on and I'm not feeding everyday, maybe I can pick up where I left off two months ago... Oh Yeah.. painting the hallway :D
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Once the bees in those capped cells start emerging things will start to come around pretty quick. As long as the queen is laying well your fine. She will only lay as much as her hive can cover/handle. With new bees emerging she will lay more, and there will be new bees ready to make more foundation.
If you want to move a frame of brood.. shake the bees off, and wrap it with a warm towel so the brood doesnt get chilled on the trip. eggs and larvae are fine. They have a laying queen they wont make queen cells with them any more than they do with the eggs she is currently laying. Mostly capped brood is best because it will be the fastest boost for the hive if you chose to transfer a frame.
Orientation on the blocks is just a matter of personal choice. I chose sideways so no debris would build up. No ant nests, mouse nests etc in the cavity.. Purely personal preference.
Nurse bees won't fight. Fighting is for the entrance and for a strange queen. Sliding a frame of nurse bees and brood in has not caused me any problems. Nuc's are often frames from two or three hives installed together.
Get some BeePeepers so you can see the eggs! Couldn't live without mine!
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Mice. Hmmm. I did see a mouse scurry across the pad yesterday. Couldn't tell where from but it looked like the hive. I wonder if I could flip the blocks without freaking the bees too much? Good info about the nurse bees and keeping brood warm.
Jeepers creepers Scott, where DID you get those Peepers? Everybody, sliiiiiiiiiiide to the right! And sliiiiiiide to the left! :D :D
Ted
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Listen to Iddee. If you move a frame of brood and you don't have the population in the hive to cover and keep it warm the brood can be chilled and die. There is a balance between bee population and the amount of brood area that can be supported. If there was sufficient population to cover that extra frame of brood the bees would have drawn and the queen would have laid it with eggs. You will get a massive hatch out over the next weeks and the population will explode and the queen will increase her laying to near full capacity.
being a little weaker is not always a bad thing in a months time Josh could be chasing swarms and yours peaking with the proper timing of the honey flow. In beekeeping one never knows.
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Apis- "If you move a frame of brood and you don't have the population in the hive to cover and keep it warm the brood can be chilled and die.
Okay so, if our nights are in the mid 60's and the highs in the daytime is around 85... would the brood get chilled if there wasn't enough bees to cover them?
I'm asking because I have one hive that is just dawling along, not really, surviving but not thriving.
Maybe I should post this question as a seperate thread?
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The brood nest is kept at 95 deg to incubate the brood it may not kill but it could effect the development of the brood. Which could effect the health and life of the bees. In all the cases I have seen if the bees cannot cover the brood and it is left exposed the brood dies.
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Okay ~
If I'm looking into my hive, how can I tell if there is enough bees to cover an added frame of brood?
Or.... let's see... I would add the frame of brood along with the bees that are on that frame?
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Jen move a frame of capped brood over into the hive with out the bees and then shake the bees off of 2 frames of young open larva that the nurse bees are feeding. This is equivalent to adding 3 to 4 frames of bees to a colony. Adding young bees so will be excepted and will not go after the queen
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There will be bees to cover an extra 2 to 3 frames. A hive 10 frames of bees will have 7 frames with brood in them 6 frames of bees 3 1/2 to 4. check and count any of your hives when you lift the cover how many frames does the cluster cover? Then haw many frames have brood? This holds true until you reach the egg laying capacity of the queen.
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Can I brush them into the hive, I'm just not very good at that snap thing :-\
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Yes brush or smoke or hold the frame by one end and hit.thr end bar pown on the edge of the super edge gravity will do most of the work.
Sent from my LG-P500h using Tapatalk 2
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Okee Dokee Thanks ;D
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If I hold the frame in one hand and slap the back of that hand with my other hand workes really well.
Three or four hard slaps will usually clear every bee off.
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That's a novel idea Woody :) so the frame would be hanging downwards, then I hit the back of my gripping hand ~ Cool! That sounds doable for me :) 8)
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Hi Everyone,
Due to some technical difficulties (or maybe computer ignorance) I've been able to read the posts but unable to respond. Not that I'd have much to add but.... Sooooo, Ive got a few more questions but, first an update. I'm continuing to feed 1:1 syrup and pollen protein patties. Two weeks ago I added the second deep. I may have rushed that a bit but was concerned that the number of new bees emerging might overwhelm the single deep they were in. The girls are drawing out the second deep, not as fast as I'd like, but then I'm trying to be patient ;). They seem to be using the top deep as a honey super, filling the cells with nectar/syrup and not brood. Is this a problem?
From what I've read it seems as though now is the time to start leaving them alone for longer periods. So my plan is to go to 2 week inspections and for the most part (unless I think there's a problem) inspect only the top deep. Does that sound right? Also, it seems as though I've heard that I should remove the Wooden entrance reducer when the summer weather starts to turn hot and humid. We've had some HOT and HUMID days however we've also had some fairly cool days and low overnight temps. We've also gotten a fair amount of rain this season. Any thoughts on the entrance reducer? Thanks Everyone, Ted
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Hey Ted!!
Do you have a top entrance? Don't remember if you grabbed some inner covers or not?
I have found that once my bees start using that they seem to be more interested in filling the top deep/supers. Nectar/honey is fine in the top deep, thats where you want them to put it rather than in the brood nest. They will put some around brood, along with pollen, the excess nectar is stored above to prepare for winter.
I still have my entrance reducers in, but also have the top entrance so they can get good ventilation going if they need it. If they are bearding I will pull the reducer as well. Will have several hives un reduced by next week.
Are your bees still taking syrup? Munching on the pollen patty?
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My first hive I drilled a two inch hole in the middle of the lid, stapled some screen on it, and it worked great for a single deep, until you get your inner board
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I did get a couple of inner covers from you (Lazy) with the entrance cut into them. If I remember right, I think I'm renting them from you :laugh:!
My bees have been bearding during the last couple of hot, muggy days. It's really kind of impressive considering the slow start they had! They continue taking syrup but, less than a quart a week, sometimes much less. They go through about half of a pollen patty every two weeks. So, entrance reducers out one day this coming week?
Oh, by the way Lazy. If you have any honey to extract I'd be willing to help out, or stand and watch, at your discretion. I'd like to see that process in hopes of next year! Thanks Everyone! Ted
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Be careful if feeding with a wide open entrance.. Not sure if there are other hives or feral colonies near you.. Don't want them to get robbed out.. Having said that, we STILL have a good flow going.. so shouldn't be a problem, keep an eye peeled.
Supposed to be in the 70's for a few days, after that I will be pulling a few reducers myself.
70's in mid July?? should be 98 to 102 degrees this time of year.. but I'll TAKE it!
I'll make sure to let you know when I am going to extract. An extra hand is ALWAYS welcome.
Scott
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"70's in mid July?? should be 98 to 102 degrees this time of year.. but I'll TAKE it!"
ditto that scott! same weather here, i'm loving it!
"They seem to be using the top deep as a honey super, filling the cells with nectar/syrup and not brood. Is this a problem?"
not a problem ted, what scott said. this is a first year colony? they have to draw that deep and fill it, the queen might lay up a little in the center frames, but if she doesn't i wouldn't be concerned about it, they will need the stores for wintering.
i have a question, why are you feeding a protein or pollen patty?
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Hey Riverbee! Yes this is a first year colony. My son told me to buy some pollen patties (back in Feb.) in anticipation of receiving the bees in May. The salesman seemed a little dubious, "they may not take them, but, it won't hurt to put one in there". "If they take it great if not it doesn't hurt to leave it in there". Or, words to that effect. So to answer your question, um, a, because I have them? Ted
After submitting this post I began to think my answer might have sounded rather flippant. I assure you all that was not my intention. A more correct answer is that I was hoping to help the girls along any way I could. Thanks, Ted
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No local SHB.. hoping beyond hope that I never get to see one in person..
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"Hey Riverbee! Yes this is a first year colony. My son told me to buy some pollen patties (back in Feb.) in anticipation of receiving the bees in May. The salesman seemed a little dubious, "they may not take them, but, it won't hurt to put one in there". "If they take it great if not it doesn't hurt to leave it in there". Or, words to that effect. After submitting this post I began to think my answer might have sounded rather flippant. I assure you all that was not my intention. A more correct answer is that I was hoping to help the girls along any way I could."
ted your reply did not sound flippant at all. the salesperson was right, they probably weren't necessary to start your new colony. when there is available pollen, the bees prefer the natural and will ignore the supplements. if they get really annoyed with it being in the hive, they will chew at it and deposit it out the front door. ;D
just my HO, i would pull those off, and save what you have left for next spring, they can be frozen.
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Thanks for the input Riverbee! My plan for after this cold front (2 or 3 days) will be to remove the reducer, keeping an eye out for feral hives robbing (I only have the one hive) and remove the pollen patty, freezing it along with the rest of the box until next spring. Sound good? Thanks, Ted
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your welcome ted, that's just my two cents about the pollen patties this time of year.... sure is cold isn't it! just dang crazy weather! yep, i have frozen the patties in zip loc bags, ordered extra and not needed them but use them the next spring....... ;)
sounds good to me!!!
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Sorry I couldnt advise on the pollen patties.. I tried to make some with Ultra bee pollen sub, sugar and water...
WOW!!! I know what to use to fix the mortar on my brick building now!! We used those for hockey pucks on the pond last winter... Worked really well but were kinda hard on the plastic paddles on the end of the hickey sticks...
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Here's another question: Yesterday I found what I think was a larva laying in front of the hive. I wasn't to bothered by it, I figured things happen. Today I found another one. Yesterdays was just kind of a white blob but, today's I could see the head so I know that it was a bee, or at least would have been. Two dead larva in two days? Is this anything to worry about? Thanks, Ted
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Hi Ted- I do know that this time of year the bees are ridding the hive of drones and drone brood, just saw a pic from some friends in Indiana who sit and watch the bees drag out drone larvae, they pick it up and go fishing with it, Ha! or the birds use it feed their chicks. :)
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Thanks Jen! There were no adult drones and some (not many) capped drone cells last time I checked. It makes sense. Ted
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Maybe they had a mite on them and the bees pulled them from cells. They got chilled in the night time temps etc.. Quite a lot of reasons this can happen to be honest. If you see a LOT of larvae getting taken out there could be a problem, a few are normal.
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ted, like scott said, could be anything, and it is most likely normal, hygienic behavior. chilled? hard to say? my guess is hygienic from mites or maybe something else that the larvae hadn't developed properly?. chilled you would see more than two i would think. if you had chalkbrood somewhere on a frame, you would see more, but this is also normal hygienic behavior by the bees.
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I removed the entrance reducer today. That simple task brought up a new question! I opened up the hive, checked the syrup, removed the remaining pollen patty and inspected a couple frames in the top deep. There's lots of nectar/ syrup (some capped) and LOTS of capped brood! Made me happy to see it! I removed the top deep and then removed the reducer. Next, I put it all back together (with the exception of the pollen patty). Sitting down just to watch things for a while I thought "Dang, that's a big hole!". The bottom board I have is from Dadants. It's one of the reversible models. If you lay it down one way the entrance is not as high, maybe 3/8 Inch? If you flip it over the other way (like I have it) the entrance looks about 1/2 to 3/4 in. high. Should I reverse (flip) the bottom board next week? I'd rather not do it today because I've already bothered them, but DANG, what a big hole! Any thoughts or insights? Thanks Ted
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I stay 3/4" all year long the bees control the temp with in the cluster and as long as there are bees across all the frames in the hive they will be able to defend the colony.
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Yep.. Once I remove the reducer I leave it out with no restrictions. I only take the reducers out on the strong/full colonies. I leave the 3" reducer in place on weaker colonies.
I also like to reduce the entrance for winter to limit the air flow. We have some ugly winds here in the winter.. Typically the winds roll across the prarie from west to east, varying from the SW or NW at times.. Last winter the winds often came out of the SE.. DRIVING the snow either from the sky or from the ground into the hives.. I tried to go out and clear the lower entrances a few times, but finally gave up in defeat.. I tried a board to block the entrance, and found the snow PACKED in behind the board etc.. If I left mine open to the 3/4 full width size I believe there would be snow blown all the way to the back of the hive.. as it was.. the lower entrances were normally blocked off completely... which I realized was probably fine while it was 50 below wind chill.
On the fateful February day when it was forecast to get into the mid 40's... 28 the day before... I hurried out that morning and cleared all the entrances.. by the end of that day yellow snow was the normal order of things.
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I use the 3/8 opening year round. It works well in this climate.
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Thanks Guys! Okay, so, for my area, leave the 3/4 entrance till winter then replace the reducer with the 3 inch opening. Lazy, I'll follow your lead. Thanks again! Ted