Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Do-It-Yourself Plans and Prints => Topic started by: Papakeith on May 22, 2014, 01:00:22 pm
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Some of you may remember my trip to pick up an 20 frame Maxant extractor from a fellow in VT. The only downside of the trip was that i couldn't fit the extractor AND the stand in the plane. The stand got left behind. It was a simple wooden stand, but it was stout.
This past week I started thinking about what I wanted to accomplish with my stand. The height, table size, etc. One thing that I had seen online was a tilting table design. This would allow you to keep the extractor locked down for extracting but let you tilt it forward to allow the last bit to drain out of it.
Overthinking things is a forte of mine; so in that spirit I give you my take on my new extractor stand.
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs27.postimg.cc%2Fshusxgyr3%2Fhoney_extractor_stand.jpg&hash=b5ce232de573f3e9bef53271699342aadb8e2538) (http://postimg.cc/image/shusxgyr3/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.cc%2Fy8vjoii9p%2Fhoney_extractor_stand_tilt.jpg&hash=dd43164ec186dda0ddfbeed99ca31ca96e186770) (http://postimg.cc/image/y8vjoii9p/)
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I'm sure your extractor is much larger than mine, but have you considered using one or more pallets for mounting? I am very happy with the way mine turned out.
http://gregsbees.blogspot.com/2012/06/mounting-extractor.html
It tilts very easily and I can put a block or something under the pallet to maintain that tilt.
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I have no experience with an extractor that big (20 frames), but from the videos I've watch it seems like vibration could be an issue. Might it be worthwhile to strap an 8x8x16" concrete block up to the bottom of the platform? I'm assuming, based on your image, that the platform is made up of two parts: a static platform attached to the legs with the extractor on an upper, hinged platform. I'm just sort of thinking about how a standard top-loading washing machine is built... they typically have concrete weights around the tub.
I'm right there with you on the over-thinking part. I've had more than one contractor tell me that as good as I was, I'd never make it in the trade because I think too much :)
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Pallets were an option but in the end I wanted to build something. :)
The vibration might be an issue. I was going to kind of see what happens and then address it then. But a weight strapped to the bottom of the stand might not be a bad idea.
Where the vibration might really be an issue is for the tilting top. I'll need to secure it with more than just the hinges. Maybe a simple solution like some carriage bolts or studs that index the tilt top into the stand legs.
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May not hurt to put a small safety cable or chain on the lifting side of the hinged platform, too. Just to keep it from tipping too far.
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I've seen people that have built a reinforced 3/4" plywood platform for their extractors and install dolly wheels under it...it seems to help with vibration and helps prevent unbalanced extractors from walking off.
Ed
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pk,
i remember your flying extractor trip!....... :D
i have a 9 frame and an 18 frame motorized radial extractor, they rock and roll. that stand i am uncertain of? great idea if it works out for you.
i also use something similar to a pallet with plywood on it, very heavy duty, like a deck is built, best way to describe it. weight on all four corners. undo the bolts to tip it forward to drain. it works for me. i have considered bolting these down in the concrete but decided not to, with two different extractors....it's really not practical for me.
how would you lock down the stand keith?
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[quote how would you lock down the stand keith?
[/quote]
I'm now thinking of adding a bottom shelf and adding a few bags of quick-Crete to keep the stand grounded. permanently anchoring it isn't really an option.
The top board is going to need to be locked down some how. Pins? Some sort of latch? Not sure yet.
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Keith, I am sympathetic follower. I too, like to overthink but take pride in saying, it ends up for the betterment of mankind..ha!
Anyway, I am following ya. That tilting idea is genius. It would beat how I prop mine up with whatever is sitting around the kitchen so that I can get that last bit of honey below the gate. My ideas using your design:
1. use a scrap piece of 1x wood mounted by a simple hinge strategically located under the table. The free end would rest/wedge against a cleat on the frame on the back.
2. for those worried about the security of it while flat, again, scrap chunks (4 maybe) of 1x wood screwed down on the top of the table around the perimeter of the extractor.
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The two extractors I have both have tilted bottoms.. I have not had any issue with all the honey flowing to the gate.. So cant offer advise there..
I do know that both my extractors, and the ones I have used "can" wobble like mad when out of balance.. Some balancing is necessary, but may not make a lot of difference, so weight is GOOD for an extractor stand. Both of my extractors also have rods or chains hooked to clevis's that can be tightened to hold the extractors to the stands.. My AI Root extractor weighs about 200 pounds, the stand is 1.5" pine with 4x4 legs and weighs about 80 pounds.. I have STOOD on the stand and had it walk across the floor with me on it... which prompted me to mention balancing.. being lazy I thought I could get by with that load... Nope, had to swap frames around until I had it better balanced...
Depending on your patience... the wobble can over time be pretty destructive.. enlarging the holes in the metal where the chains/rods hold the extractor to the stand.. loosening the points where they hook into the stand etc.. So there is really no such thing as too rugged unless your going to talk about your own ease of moving the extractor and stand.
Whatever you build, Over build it. Make it twice as rugged as you think necessary. It will save time later.
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I don't own an extractor and I've no degree in engineering though I have slept in Holiday Inn Expresses that appeared to have been designed by engineers. :)
If the extractor is bolted down so that it can't move, the energy of the wobble is still there and has to dissipate "somewhere". If it can't get rid of the energy by wobbling or taking a little walk where does the energy go?...to the bearings?....flexing of the basket shaft?....motor gears? I have no proof of it, but I tend to think that a commercial or industrial grade extractor is most likely built heavy duty enough to deal with this most of this captive energy. A consumer grade extractor I wonder about, though. Thus, my mention earlier of the platform with wheel beneath it. I would think "some" movement would be a good thing...but extractor would need to move as a unit rather than just a part of it. The energy is present and goes somewhere, even if we can't really visually detect where.
Ok, I'll go back to taking pictures of armadillo holes now. I'm not a big game hunter, but did I mention that I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express a while back?........
Ed
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I don't own an extractor and I've no degree in engineering though I have slept in Holiday Inn Expresses that appeared to have been designed by engineers. :)
If the extractor is bolted down so that it can't move, the energy of the wobble is still there and has to dissipate "somewhere". If it can't get rid of the energy by wobbling or taking a little walk where does the energy go?...to the bearings?....flexing of the basket shaft?....motor gears? I have no proof of it, but I tend to think that a commercial or industrial grade extractor is most likely built heavy duty enough to deal with this most of this captive energy. A consumer grade extractor I wonder about, though. Thus, my mention earlier of the platform with wheel beneath it. I would think "some" movement would be a good thing...but extractor would need to move as a unit rather than just a part of it. The energy is present and goes somewhere, even if we can't really visually detect where.
Ok, I'll go back to taking pictures of armadillo holes now. I'm not a big game hunter, but did I mention that I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express a while back?........
Ed
Very well put! ROFL!
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
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Wheels could work and would be easy to put on (and to remove if they prove problematic. )
Tilting is to get that last bit out once you are done extracting. The machine wouldn't be running in that configuration, just draining.
I'll add a strap to the back to keep it from tipping over while being tilted.
A 4x4 block will serve as the mechanism to hold the machine tilted.
the shelf with weights will be added. If the added weight doesn't help I can store stuff there right?
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If you'd like, you can ship it all to me, including the loaded frames, and I'll test it for you. I'll even make any necessary modifications. Lemme know and I'll PM you my address.
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Having mentioned the above about the wheels/dollys I'll state that my mentor has a 9-frame SAF that he has used for several years. He bought it from his best friend who upgraded to a Dadant 6/12. At the end of extraction he simply the extractor towards the gate and drain any puddled honey out of the bottom of the extractor. I would think that his friend did the same thing before him. IN regards to vibration, he takes care in loading frames so that they are pretty well balanced.
I apologize for straying from the OP regarding a more commercial type of extractor without attached legs, but I did want to mention that with care there is no absolute need for extra mounting modifications for a hobbyist /sideliner grade extractor, but rather something you could do to perhaps enhance it's lifespan. My mentor's extractor is on it's second owner and going on probably 10 years old and has simply stood on it's three legs throughout that time...but it has been taken well care of.
Ed
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I think I can add to this. I built an extractor last year, after a lot of research. I tried to address most of the issues that I read about other folks having. To fight the vibration, I mounted mine on casters. I don't lock them when extracting. All I get is a little wobble. It doesn't walk. Mine is a center bottom drain and the discharge pipe hangs over a 5 gallon bucket. I have never had it wobble enough to make the pipe leave the bucket. The fact that the extractor can move in response to the influence of the weight rotating around the center of the mass helps dissipate the energy created by the imbalance.
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(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs18.postimg.cc%2Fg78seyf6d%2Fimage.jpg&hash=12d59b233106ff7b04d36258ea2f1219d873e052) (http://postimg.cc/image/g78seyf6d/)
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs18.postimg.cc%2F5j51g4579%2Fimage2.jpg&hash=84b06d3d4b6ddc66f55113d1b5f345149b504794) (http://postimg.cc/image/5j51g4579/)
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Nice looking extractor, rcannon!!!
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Tanks, Ed.
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rc, you built this? incredible and very cool!
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Tanks, Riverbee. It works pretty good and the only two things I actually paid for was the motor and controller. I'm gonna change a few things on the next one, but I'm pretty satisfied.
An uncapping tank is next, then a chain flail uncapper. I meant to build the uncapping tank before now, but there are just not enough hours in the day. I could get so much done if I didn't have to eat and sleep.
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"I could get so much done if I didn't have to eat and sleep."
....... :D
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there are just not enough hours in the day. I could get so much done if I didn't have to eat and sleep.
Agreed! Always thought that if I could figure out how to only be married one week out of every three months, I might have time to get half of the list completed before it grew longer again... :laugh:
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The unbalance in the extractor is partly due to design. If the speed control is slow enough to start the the bulk of the honey can be spun out at a speed that doesn't shake the extractor. If you have an extractor that auto increases the speed over time having the honey warmed to 90 Deg. will cause it to flow out easier and sooner so the speed increase doesn't cause more vibration in the middle of extracting a load of frames. Supers with warm honey will extract a lot easier and faster than cool supers at room temperatures.
Had heard about your extractor stand thread and finally found it. I like the design and Idea of the tilting platform is genius. I have to remove the 3 hold downs to do mine. I have no issue with out of balance but I am aware of frame placement and while filling and the start speed is slow so most of the weight is spun out at a slow speed and only increase the speed when it runs smooth at that speed.
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I put my extractor and stand to work last week. Surprisingly, it worked pretty darned well. Nothing fell apart, the tilting worked as designed.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=779374732107159&set=vb.543251565719478&type=3&theater
the first drop:
https://plus.google.com/100877747318567709698/posts/558wYrEYy6g
and the last drop
(https://worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.cc%2Fklsrj3fif%2Fmaxant_tilted.jpg&hash=c0a8d7ed37c15aad4a3467ba3daf76c1e5cc7008) (http://postimg.cc/image/klsrj3fif/)
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Looks good. Nice having a radial extractor. Looking forward to the posting of the rest of your extracting out fit.
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for now, that IS my extracting outfit :-[
For this year anyway.
I do have a card table a bread knife and a bunch of buckets for all of my other needs.
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for now, that IS my extracting outfit :-[
For this year anyway.
I do have a card table a bread knife and a bunch of buckets for all of my other needs.
Heheh, Not a bad start! Don't see a refer in the picture though? How can you be expected to work in a hot extracting room without cold beverages? My wife deals with OSHA a lot.. I can put in a good word for you if you want a visit. We can get you set up with the OSHA requirements for an extracting room.. :laugh:
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Did I forget to mention the fridge and the air conditioner?
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No AC!! Honey flows better if its hot as hades in there, that is why the fridge with COLD beverages is mandatory.. I think its LAW in some states? ;D
Of course.. if your richer than I am a tank/honey heater would by pass that so you could run the AC...
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I told Dad no AC but it IS his barn.