Worldwide Beekeeping
Beekeeping => Beekeeping 101 => Topic started by: tbonekel on May 26, 2014, 09:40:43 am
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I have been reading another thread about honey in upper deeps with some very good information on that topic. I just watched another awesome video from JPthebeeman and now I have questions. Out in the wild, when bees find a suitable home for themselves, they move in and begin building comb from the top down. Is is right to assume that no matter how large the colony, the organization of the comb contents are basically the same which is brood in the bottom/middle, pollen after that, then honey on the outside and above. Okay, if that is true, then let's say some bees move into a tree or between the studs of a house and they have a restricted area side to side in which to build. They begin at the top building comb and the queen begins to lay in the middle and lower portion of the comb and bees store honey at the top. As they grow in numbers, the comb grows down and as brood above emerges, the empty cells are filled with honey, correct? But in captivity, we tell the bees nope, we don't want you to do that. When they fill a deep, we put another one on top, not below. And after that, a honey super goes on. Okay, it seems to work and they have been doing that for years and it is, in fact, easier on the beekeeper to do it that way, but why? What if at the beginning of the year, we started with a medium, then added another medium below, then a deep below that, then another deep below that? In theory, when it's time to extract, the mediums would be full of honey. I know the comb would not be as clean and you might not want for comb honey. Also, I know that at the end of the season, you have deeps full of bees and you want to start with mediums in the spring, so that would be difficult. Okay, you experienced people, tell me now why that wouldn't work. Ready......FIGHT!
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Be cause we are humans and work smarter then that.....
We manipulate them so that we don't have to move a box to the side, place another on the stack and so on...
It is much easier and manageable with the way we (keeps) do it !
But, by all means if you're young and have a healthy strong back, feel free do it your new improved way :D
You'll come back................ I don't think it will be a long road back either ! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I've had the same observations on the dozen or so cut outs I've been on in wild trees and houses. Of course, I've watched a hundred of JP's videos, so I feel like an expert ;)
The Warre hive (http://warre.biobees.com/) adds space on the bottom of the hive, you might find that interesting. You can read about 'Nadiring' a hive by placing supers on the bottom instead of supering the hive on top. You can try it, but be prepared for back breaking work once you have the Langstroth boxes four or five tall. HTH :)
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We manipulate them so that we don't have to move a box to the side, place another on the stack and so on...
I wish I had a young back! :sad: So when you are doing a good inspection, what are you doing? When I do a thorough inspection, I remove the super, then inspect the top deep, then remove the top deep and inspect the bottom deep, the whole time removing boxes to check the ones below. I do understand that if you have a hive three boxes high, with the traditional method, you know how full the bottom box is. I will give you that one.
I've had the same observations on the dozen or so cut outs I've been on in wild trees and houses. Of course, I've watched a hundred of JP's videos, so I feel like an expert ;)
yes, JP will make you have delusions of grandeur. :)
You can try it, but be prepared for back breaking work once you have the Langstroth boxes four or five tall. HTH :)
I know that I don't yet have the experience of hives that big, and I can see how they would be hard. I have now felt how heavy a deep full of bees and honey can get, so I would think that using the method I'm proposing would be best using all mediums.
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Complete inspections are not that common for me. Once the spring progresses, then a peak of tipping up the upper brood box to look at the bottom of the frames is all. The placement of medium supers and removal for harvest, from The Top is what I do ! :D
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"When they fill a deep, we put another one on top, not below. And after that, a honey super goes on. Okay, it seems to work and they have been doing that for years and it is, in fact, easier on the beekeeper to do it that way, but why? What if at the beginning of the year, we started with a medium, then added another medium below, then a deep below that, then another deep below that?"
you made me think really hard on this tbone......but i think i'm with garden hive's first post........ :D
why? you ask.......hmmm, blame LL Langstroth.......?!........ :D
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What you describe is exactly how it should work in a feral colony. But most beekeepers put very little thought into how feral bees operate and spend more time trying to force the bees to behave how we think they should.
I often go round and round with folks on ventilation. Every feral colony that I have studied has done everything possible to completely seal up the nest with the exception of entrance holes, yet we as beekeepers believe there is never enough ventilation. Try and catch a swarm in a trap with a screen bottom and sill how enticing the bees find it.
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I can totally understand that when you have over 10 hives, you start to have to do some things as quickly as possible just to get it done and going out, taking the top off and putting on another box on top is a lot faster than taking apart the hive just to put a box on the bottom.
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tbone, think of this also in terms of disturbing the hive, so you are dismantling it and disrupting it to, for example, simply place a honey super beneath. this is a setback to the bees every time a hive is dismantled for whatever reason, not to mention other types of setbacks or things that can and will go wrong, for example, injuring or killing the queen.
ps rob, thank you for your post. very true.